Lena Nelson featured on this installment of The Access Point, and she and our hosts Brandon and Mike talked about being coachable.

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SPEAKER 1 0:10

All right, everyone. Hello, we are live welcome, welcome. Welcome to the access point, which is part of the living corporate network, we’re really excited to be here with you guys. So first, let me just kick this off by giving you an explanation of living corporate. And if you’re new here, living corporate is a writing and podcasting platform that is dedicated to exploring and celebrating underrepresented identities in corporate America. So like, like, if you are one of those people, you are definitely in the right place. As a collective living corporate represents a broad spectrum of beliefs, cultures, and identities. And we know that all of our differences shape our perspective, and experiences in corporate America, live in corporate wants to engage with other voices that often go unheard and have conversations out loud. So live in corporate is for everyone. But specifically, we also want to focus on black and brown people because that those are people. And so the access point is, is from living corporate, it is very much so in line with all of that. And so Brandon, would you tell us about the access point?

SPEAKER 2 1:22

Sure. Thanks, Mike. Well, the access will welcome to the exit point, first and foremost, which is part of living corporate network. The access point is our weekly web show we strive to bring Yeah, real talk that will prepare you for the workforce. While content is with everyone. We’re focused on preparing Black and Brown students just as yourself a future. Every week, we’ll have an incredible guest of discuss the topics at hand. And this week, this week, we have Miss Lena and [Inaudible]

SPEAKER 3 1:49


SPEAKER 2 1:50

What do you do for them? What brings you here today?

SPEAKER 3 1:54

Perfect. My name is Lena Nelson, I’m a young professional working in the Charlotte, North Carolina area. I’m a Senior Associate at a digital marketing organization called Red ventures. Essentially what we do is marriage of the analytics with the creativity. So someone with my background, I actually went to undergrad in finance. So very different than what I thought I was doing when I graduated five years ago, but exciting and really allows me to pivot and just have a stream of feedback loop that really goes to that theme of being coachable. So to your question of why I’m here, I really find it as a very foundational skill set, to have and to need. And it’s really benefited me as a person. And I really just want to create an opportunity for dialogue, to talk about my experiences and how I can be helpful for others.

SPEAKER 1 2:52

Nice, nice.Yeah, well, thank you for being here. We’re really excited about this. So if you are a follower or a subscriber, you might know Brandon’s face, you might know my face. We’ve been on several of these before we are hosting this conversation with Lena. And Selena, we’re so thankful that you are here with us. So yeah, so we have some questions for Lena. But if you have questions for her, make sure you drop them in the chat or use the Ask a Question feature. And also get your people over here. Like there are people who are watching. There are people who need to hear this and there are some people Lets just be real, like we need a distraction from this election, at least for the next hour. Or so. We are going to get you out of here on time so that you can check that out if you want to. But if you are looking for a distraction, or you know somebody who needs a nice distraction, where you’re going to learn some great, great stuff from some great content. Please, please, please share this link. And don’t forget to follow live in corporate. So let’s jump right in. So the theme of this is about being coachable. And I think this is one of the most important things for any young career professional, simply because I argue that the college degree today means less than it ever has. So you’re not just gonna show up on day one. And like I got a master’s in this and they’re like, oh, great. Well, listen you so first, like why is it important to be coachable? In your opinion?

SPEAKER 3 4:25

Yeah, to your point and we used to always joke when I worked for a financial institution, we would hate majors on finance, like hate, like, they come with these preconceived notions of like, what the job was and what they could do to be successful. I really loved people who had that mind-set of just being a sponge and soaking up that information. I growing up I was really into sport so was a huge soccer fan. I don’t know if anyone knows I love me a ham Brianna scary they were so like it was one of those things where growing up Try them exactly. What made me very excited? And one of the themes that I had from coaches were, you’re very teachable. You’re very coachable. I may have not been the best athlete on the field. But I could receive feedback and iterate off of that feedback. And I think that’s really what the value of being coachable means is just being able to be open to receiving feedback asking for that feedback. But not just stopping with receiving it, but actually doing something about it. And so how can you improve how you can come well when you receive that?

SPEAKER 1 5:32

Yeah. Do you like the English Premier League?

SPEAKER 3 5:37

I am not really into men’s soccer. So I will say that I am very like equal pay for equal work, but women’s soccer I will scream every four years as well as I attend a lot of the local games. Whether its Washington freedom and the DC metro area, or even though super huge fan, find one in like 1000 but

SPEAKER 1 6:04

But listen, listen to us that the Houston dash is my squad now like I am. So my Premier League team is arsenal. So if you are an arsenal fan shout out to who’s an arsenal fan? It’s been a hard life for a while, but we all know

SPEAKER 2 6:25

It’s arsenal. Come on.

SPEAKER 1 6:27

But you know what Arsenal is women’s team is very good as well. So just you know, I love that you love soccer. It’s actually funny. When he talks about coaching, it made me think of this, Nick Saban is I think he’s probably the best college football coach ever. And he says this thing that I love, Pepe says it takes what it takes, and most of the time that it is you learning. Yeah. Brandon, were you about that? Were you about to introduce the next question?

SPEAKER 2 6:57

Oh, no. Well, yes, I was. So what are the signs that you look for yourself to show that you’re not wounded? Because I need a question one more time. What are the signs to look for in yourself that shows that you are not willing to be coached?

SPEAKER 3 7:19

I guess I view this question, as, I guess flipping on itself, if you’re not self-aware, it’s very difficult to come to terms with someone giving you feedback. So if you’re not ready to receive feedback, I think it’s very plausible that you’re not going to do anything when you get it, whether it was requested or not. I think of it in the same way as like, being ready for an adventure, or do you have all the tools in your toolkit to truly go through that project that’s laid before you if you do not have that step one of just like being ready for it to happen. I really feel like you’ve already closed yourself down. And it’s already to the point where it’s no longer impactful.

SPEAKER 2 8:02

Is there is there a point to where you can open yourself up to be comfortable? Like for example, you may you may have that revelation one time where people just browbeating you on Hey, you need to get ready to do this need to do this. And then you just have a revelation like oh yeah, I need to listen to so when what point does it become to where you want to be coachable? From being coachable? To be closer?

SPEAKER 3 8:25

Yeah. So I will say this. And if we’re looking at like being in the workplace, the first time I realized the importance of it was my peers were promoted before me. So it was just one of those things of like, what are they doing? And what am I not doing? To get to that next step? Obviously, there are other aspects that comparison standpoint, that may not be correct and making that assumption, but I think a really great check in time is whenever there’s Meteor reviews, or whenever there are opportunities where it’s more constructive, that you receive that feedback from a party from management, I think it’s really interesting when we’re in undergrad, or when we’re still in school, is we have that regular feedback loop that goes away once we graduate in the real world. We get graded on essays, we get told that that project was not great, we’d need to see x from you on this. When you enter the real world that just disappears, people just expect you to figure it out. And I think that’s when you start thinking through, oh, no one has a book that tells them how to do this. They’re actually asking the questions that will give them the tools to be aware of the things that they can do to move forward

SPEAKER 2 9:38

To the question or it is also part of a great follow up question. When should you start being told when to be closed? Right? So you said you get the constant feedback loop. Returning paper isn’t going to work when we get into the real world like really on our own. So should we start Day One should we find mentors we wish we did another episode on x when we talked about mentors, so we want to look for coaching, do we want to look for it immediately when we get to the workforce? Do we want to find those people that help us? Then one, day six day 2090, I wish and we start finding the person who wants to coach us.

SPEAKER 3 10:16

So I will say, you should do it as soon as possible. I would say for me, I lucked out in which when I joined my first internship, I had another black woman in that office, look at me and say, get in my office, why don’t you have a notepad and like that started that moment where she was a mentor. But I know when we talk through mentoring and coaching, there’s that stream of where that person could be, whether they’re a sponsor, whether their coach, whether their mentor, or really was advantageous for her, she gave me that foundation to start receiving that even though I didn’t request it. I think I find some of the most impactful interviews that I give are when at the end, the interviewee looks at me, it’s like, Hey, can I get some feedback on how that went? What are ways that I can improve on that? What are ways that I can look ahead to the next interview that I have that I can put my best foot forward? That leaves a really helpful impression for me, because at least at my organization, being coachable is a very important skill set that we’re looking for. And which that’s like a spoken item that I’m checking off a list of like, oh, so they’re ready for this. And they’re already seeing how important this is. I want that first. And so I think even as early as before you can get into the door, just having that mind-set of how do I optimize myself? How do I get better? Is just, I guess, more solid lifestyle than just a point in time.

SPEAKER 2 11:43

Oh, thank you, but say so because I have a great follow up question, which is one of the questions that is on the list.

SPEAKER 3 11:48

No, good. That’s good.

SPEAKER 2 11:49

All right. So he talked about finding a coach, you say as soon as possible, so you can still work for us. Now, the next question is, how many coaches are ideal for you to have?

SPEAKER 3 12:03

I don’t know if there is, I feel like that’s, that’s a cop out? It’s a bit like, I don’t know, if there is an answer to that. I think for me, I have had as many as three coaches, you know, I want one topic, you know, like that I’m really looking for feedback, whether it’s through my therapist or my performance coach, to if it’s my manager and our developmental sessions, to my peers that I’m like, Hey, can you look at how many times I use a filler word, just having people from different aspects and different perspectives. Give me that help that I could have to help flesh out that person than I can be? So I don’t know if there is a proper amount of people in your life. I think it’s more of the quality of that feedback you’re receiving and the quality of that coach, then the amount that you

SPEAKER 2 13:00

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, like, like, what’s, what is ask like? Like, when if you are interested in getting feedback from somebody, what’s the best way to ask for that feedback?

SPEAKER 3 13:18

I think the best way to ask for feedback is to be specific. So rather than be like, Can you see how I performed on this call? Or can you give me feedback on this presentation, give us specific instance that you’re really looking for. So hey, can you please give me feedback on the amount of filler words or, hey, I’m really looking at how I can be more influential with a partner and leading them through my story is my story makes sense? Am I have a beginning, a middle and an end, just getting that really specificity? And that feedback really helps people give it because it’s while you ask it is typically how you will receive it. So

SPEAKER 1 13:59

I love that. I love that. How you ask it is how you receive it. Yeah, I mean, like, for me, this hits home, because this is something that I have wanted to do have tried to do at every single position that I’ve ever had, like, like I told you guys, before we started the show, I just started a new job. And I have been spending the last two weeks just reading and learning and talking to people and asking them like, like I don’t even know I’m in a director position where like, the decisions are kind of mine to make. But I want to learn like and pay homage to like what was done before me. So I think I think being coachable is like it for me right now is extremely relevant, like extremely extreme. So I have a question. So I think from a management perspective, it seems like jobs would love coachable people. So Other than asking for feedback, what are like the top three things a person can do to show their manager or their boss, the director, that they actually are coachable?

SPEAKER 3 15:12

I think auctioning off of that feedback, thanking for that feedback, and the reciprocation of the feedback. So I would say the most important way that I feel good when I give someone feedback is that they actually did something about it like that they showed improvement that they’re working towards that they’re making steps in that direction, because it feels this Oh, it’s like you heard me, you care. And then the next thing is to be grateful for it, I think there is a balance that you have to have. And maybe we can go deeper discussion of understanding the person who’s giving you that feedback, because not all feedback is something that you should accept. And really asking those questions of understanding how you implement it is really important. Because if you’re not active in that discussion, you can either make an assumption and go a totally different direction and spin your wheels. And not really even got to the crux of what that feedback was about. And then all in, I guess, reciprocating that circle is just each one teach one. So like giving that to someone else, like being an active participant. And I would even say this is like, being a really good team player, and a sense of just giving that to your peers, you can give feedback to your manager, you can give feedback to your direct reports, it’s just making sure that that’s a continuous discussion. Because people, I always see it as similar to for playing sports, you’re only as good as your team. And so if there’s someone lacking an aspect on your team, you want to make sure that you can work with them to help bring them up to speed. Obviously, you’re all at the same level of that.

SPEAKER 2 16:54

Alright, so we have a question. Question is from Bonita, faithful listener of ours? On the access point, she said, what are the reasonable timeframes to see change in implement the change from the coach,

SPEAKER 3 17:06

Once again, gonna go with a cop out of it depends. So I think it really matters, it really matters. It’s like, I’m not, I don’t want to sound on like deaf ears, it really matters of what type of feedback it is. So is it as simple as, hey, the way that you are stressed, everyone else can see that? It’s not good for the rest of the team to feel as if they’re stressed as well. Like, that’s something that maybe you need to nip in the bud quickly, because that’s impacting other people. That’s impacting how you function as a team. And you really want to be cognizant of that. And then a really helpful way of thinking through it is talking to your manager or someone that you trust. So whether that’s a mentor or sponsor of, I guess, not less a sponsor, but more of a mentor and a coach that can help you prioritize that feedback. And what you should really hit first. So like, actually to receive all of this content? How do you help stack them? That is part of your managers job is to help you stack? How you proceed through that feedback. And what’s the most important?

SPEAKER 1 18:11

Yeah, great answer. Yeah. So real quick, I want to go back to something. So first, thank you for the question. Benita? Anybody that’s watching, feel free to ask questions, ask more questions. We are here for you. So yeah, definitely feel free to ask more questions. But um, in the in the previous answer, you said that you should not accept all feedback. When do you reject feedback?

SPEAKER 3 18:41

I think especially being someone like being a black woman in the workplace, some of the feedback I get is just off the wall. Like, your tone was too aggressive. Like you didn’t say that to Jacob. Wait, it’s like, that’s just point blank, you know, you have to understand and discern when it feels that there are dog whistles and, or if they are getting at something that’s, but tell me more. So like the way that I help discern if this feedback is helpful, or if this feedback is valid, is asking questions. So can you give me an example of when this happened? Can you give me an example of the impact? Can you give me like, just really press on how and what is the implementation of how you’re showing this issue? Can really help get at the crux of is this just your personal feeling? Or is this something that’s actually not helpful for my career? Obviously, there’s a bunch of disclaimers around that if that’s your manager, I think you’re in a tougher position. I think we’ve all had instances where we have managers that do not feel as if they’re supporting us or really looking out for our progress as a person. I think that’s when you really have to start thinking through what are other coaches you can get outside of your manager and who are people who are either peers to your manager above your manager or can help give you feedback, and to be in those rooms to really talk you up if they aren’t doing that already for you. So I definitely think it really depends. And normally that gut feeling where you’d feel as if someone is not really telling the truth or that they’re really coming at you out of left field, you’re normally right. Because we have to contextualize everything and who we are, whether that’s our gender, our race, or even our sexuality, even prior to understanding it.

SPEAKER 1 20:32

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I had a had a situation like that a while ago, where someone was like, hey, can I give you feedback on something? And I was like, like, literally, you just watch somebody else do this, and you didn’t pull them and give them feedback? No, I do not accept that. I will not accept that. I love that discern will like if they if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck. It’s a duck. Right? It’s right. I love that. Love it.

SPEAKER 2 21:06

So we have another question. Um, so we see every day on LinkedIn, and these other companies, they want to model themselves as a career coach, right? So the question then becomes, do you need to pay for coaching? I do want to just hire somebody for coaching? And if so, what’s the reasonable price point? And even do this as needed? Is it keep on keeping on retainer? Should people go ahead and seek professional coaching? And if so, what’s the price point? You think it’s a reasonably acceptable?

SPEAKER 3 21:38

Yeah, I think that’s an interesting question, because I’ve never paid for coaching. That being said, I have paid for someone to review a resume, to write a cover letter to help me interview. And if there is someone who has a skill set that has them predisposed to help you with that issue, I think, to patronize them and to pay them what’s due like, not everyone is there to give free labour, I think it’s very important to pay people what they’re do, I think it really comes to the value that you see fit. So is this a trusted source? Are there reviews of this person? What really, can they show for the progress and the value of their performance coaching? They also think a similar way of looking at this is, I see it as a bit of when you’re looking at an organization when you’re comparing not just what the salary or the benefit package is of the organization. And it’s a similar question of like, are, do they look to coach their employees? Do they have a lot of learning development in their organizations to help improve their employees, and would value it in that same sense as if it’s health care or pay raise? So in that sense, I know I have not paid for it, I really couldn’t even give you a price point, it’d be like asking me what a gallon milk is. I legitimately don’t know, because I’m lactose intolerant. But it’s more of a question of where you place value is important. It’s valuable to you. And if you can afford it, go for it. Who am I to tell you that’s too expensive or too low?

SPEAKER 1 23:16

Yeah, one thing, one thing I’ll say on the topic is like, I’ve never paid for coaching either. I, with LinkedIn and the internet, I just want to tell people be careful, because there’s a lot of pseudo experts out there. There’s a lot of people pretending and like even, even, just because somebody has a large following, and it looks like what they’re doing, it looks like they know what they’re doing. They know not everybody, you really need to vet that person. If you’re gonna if you’re gonna pay eat, look, I don’t even pay for LinkedIn premium. Like I don’t like there’s so much free content online, YouTube, the access point is free. Right? Like no notice that, like living corporate, like shout out Linden corporate does not charge you for this for any of this content. Right? So you have all this free learning that you can do before you pay a person. So my advice to anybody is to figure out what’s free, and also sift through those people before you buy a course. Like, I obviously won’t say it, but I have friends that are faking it, and have hundreds of 1000s of followers online, like not even playing like fake, straight up faking it duping the world. So don’t pay these coaches out here.

SPEAKER 3 24:41

Exactly. Networking, collaborate,

SPEAKER 1 24:46

Network and collaborate. So let me let me ask you this, from your experience, what is the toughest piece of feedback that you’ve got to your career and I actually would like to ask this of you am Brandon. Like I would I want all of us to go. So you go first Lena, what’s the toughest piece of feedback you’ve gotten?

SPEAKER 3 25:10

So I received feedback to care less, which I think is a very, so the only reason why I feel like you don’t get this feedback to normal people, I think there was an aspect where I cared a little too more too much. I like I said, I’m in marketing, I was in finance, we are not saving lives. So like, there was an aspect where I had a coach who looked at me and he was just like, you need to really understand and have perspective when you approach these problems, because you are giving 100% to every problem. And that’s not sustainable. And you’re not doing well for your mental health. That’s how I burned out in my other organization. And it was coming to those agencies where I’m I was burning out here. So I would say mine was careless. But I also don’t think that’s normal feedback that most people I guess, if I was impactful for me, because it felt very personal. And felt a little out of left field. But it definitely

SPEAKER 1 26:01

Makes sense to me. I know some people could afford to care less.

SPEAKER 2 26:07

I think for me, mine was too. I was too argumentative. I’m coming this is basically my first guy school. I was young, cocky that I knew at all I when I was learning regarding engineering. And what I noticed was I didn’t know I knew that I didn’t know a lot. But the things that I didn’t know, I knew well to the point where I can talk to other people and other people and show them the ropes. There’s younger individuals as well. So when it was time for me to get my performance review and title my coaching, so that’s, uh, yeah, you argue you pointed you to definitive and what you’re thinking, be more open minded, and be more accepting other thoughts in other people’s work as well, when you’re doing these type of things, because you don’t know everything. And once I’ve learned that a whole door possibilities open up for me, I realize that, you know, I was making my sub calls my day and I, because he thinks he knows everything I’ve learned through my experience in my career. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1 27:17

My most helpful piece of feedback is actually where we’ve talked about him. But it’s actually a Nick Saban line again. It was not given to me by Nick Saban was horrible at football. But I tend to, like, not necessarily overcomplicate, but when I’m thinking about a solution, or when I’m thinking about like solving a problem at work, I come up with a solution that is normally appropriate for like five years down the road. So like, if we’re trying to find a way to engage with a certain group of people, I’m like, we could have a whole conference where we all go to Atlanta, and everybody has matching sneakers, and hoodies and like, and we can get daymond john. And this guy that one of the people that I worked with at a school that I was at, before I just switched jobs, he would just look at me and say do simple better. Like, everybody wants to go for the for the slam dunk, when really you just need to make the layup so just do simple, better. And for you for three years. Every time I started going there he do simple better. Like as a matter of fact, he bought me a T shirt that says do simple, better on it. Like in my car, right? I should have worn it. But yeah, that’s the most helpful piece of feedback for me. But it was tough because I am I’m a big thinker. And so what for a while I was like you just trying to hold me back, like you did like I’m trying to create these outcomes over here. And you’re telling me to do was basic? I don’t do basic right. But for me, like, in the long term, that’s been so much more helpful, because now I can break that five year vision down and say, oh, here’s what we can do year one. What can we do here too? So let us know if you’re watching. Let us know in the comments what the toughest piece of feedback that you have ever received in your careers. And we’ll move on to the next question. We’ll move logistics are key. Yep, setup step. That’s right. Yeah, so what do you think in your opinion, Lena, what’s the long term impact that being coachable receiving feedback could have on a career?

SPEAKER 3 29:27

So I guess I see this more so. I guess I so I did some research. So I did a little I did some Google’s, um, and I did not go to school for this. I have only lived this. But a lot of really interesting articles and case studies around the correlation of leadership, and coachability as well as promotions and coachability. So, but I would really boil that down into being someone that can Proof tends to get you a lot further than someone who’s very stuck in their ways. And so I would say that’s from my like, what I, the way I look at my career is, I still have no idea what I want to be when I grow up, I have no idea what that job is I like I felt like as a kid, I used to be like, I want to be a CEO. And I’m like, that seems like a lot. But you know, like, now it’s like, I want to have a good work life balance and feel impactful at my job. And one of the ways that I feel impactful is feeling as if I’m growing. And so that’s the way I see coachability is like, if I’m in a space where I’m not getting regular feedback, I tend to plateau. And all of a sudden, my work product suffers. And either it’s a discussion of where I’m going, or who’s firing me. And so I think it’s very helpful understanding what drives you, and how that feedback can help you grow in that direction.

SPEAKER 1 30:55

Yeah, I think that’s a great point. Because when, like, the dilemma of any manager, or director or CEO is to hire talented people. And, and, in my opinion, when talented people are not stretched and pushed via coachability, and feedback, then they get bored, and they look, they look for the next project. And I know, for me, I consider myself talented at what I do. And when I’m not being pushed. And when I’m not, when I don’t have an opportunity to upskill or increase the responsibility of my role. I, I will leave a job like my, my resume will show you I will leave for a more exciting and challenging opportunity. You know, so I think that’s, that’s key. I love that.

SPEAKER 2 31:47

So next question that we have, what are the steps that an individual needs to do to prepare themselves to have her approach? How can you teach how to get yourself ready? How? What steps do you need to take? Do you take a mental break to get yourself ready for positive and negative feedback, you need to have a vegan diet or something, but you need to exercise something, obviously, just to do something to get sales mentally, mentally ready for somebody to really break you down and build you back up. What the person.

SPEAKER 3 32:27

So I feel like in a lot of commercials of like weight loss, they’re always like, what’s your WHY? And I think it’s in the sense of feedback of like, what’s your WHY? So like, how do you define success? What is success for you? What we’ll help you get there. And I think, why you want to get there, I think those are very important to have in the forefront of your mind. Because, well, I said, you have to be able to discern the feedback you’re getting, there are also going to be feedback, that’s just going to be hard, and it’s going to be gut wrenching. And it’s going to make you question, one, do I know who I am? If two, do I even want to do this. And so making sure that you have that y frame of mind and front of mine can really help lead you to make sure that you’re able to receive that have that open mind and the lack of ego to really go towards it. It’s up

SPEAKER 2 33:20

My brother ego, right? I your experience with ego. So not just what you personally but just my sense of how detrimental is your ego to be being coachable?

SPEAKER 3 33:33

Yeah, I would say being having an ego can be detrimental to you having your job. So like, I think there are some aspects where like, you will need to check your ego like you need to be in a framework that he regardless of how much experience you may have on x subject, you don’t know anything, and you should come in that perspective, are willing and able to truly learn and gather. I’m in that space. But I think not having an ego is extremely important and being coachable and having feedback. I think it’s similar to on a sports team. Like typically the star athlete that has the ego will be knocked down a couple pegs after a loss or after not receiving feedback from their coach. So I think it’s very important to check yourself and to really recognize where that stemming from and normally you have an ego in somewhere because you’re trying to hide something so like how can you help understand where that being drawn from to help address it.

SPEAKER 1 34:35

That’s good, ego out of it. Yeah,

SPEAKER 2 34:41

Ego will be bruised.

SPEAKER 1 34:45

I mean, I think that that that that’s like a great piece of advice. For a lot of different areas of work. Man I know during the first COVID shut down. I mean, it seems like we’re gonna have another one, but during the first COVID shut down I was working at a school that, you know, we had built. Like I built the remote program remote learning program for that school in August of 2019. And we had no obviously, like we didn’t know the Coronavirus, we were just like, let’s see if we can do this. And the first thing our leadership said was like, we should have no ego about what we figured out. Because number one, we don’t know if it’s gonna work next time. And number two, like that’s just not the way forward. And so that’s, that’s a great piece of coaching for anybody who’s listening. That came from Lena, a golden nugget, which is leave your ego out of your job, because it can cost you your job. I’ve seen, I’ve seen that happen in a couple places where people people’s ego customer, john. Yeah. So before we hit our next question, I do want to, because you talked about the last question, Brandon was about preparing yourself to have a career coach. All right, I will say that even with the existence of like, like, so I just want to give a quick plug to some free resources, obviously, like YouTube and Google, but there’s a there’s a Slack channel called career comments, is the largest active Slack channel, I believe on the platform’s more than 3000 members. And its run by a company called teal. They there’s so much like peer coaching that goes on there. But if you’re not looking for peer coaching, I realized we were like, like, be careful who you pay. But let me give you some people that you actually can look to pay. Obviously, Tristan is one of them. Tristan is a career coach, Justin lay field, who you’ll hear on live in corporate podcast. Also, he’s a co-host of the show, and somebody we had on the show, which is Julia rock, she is also a phenomenal career coach, and a sneaker head. Which answers for a reason. So select go for her. But there’s some great career coaches out there. And if you need connections to hit us up, and we’ll be more than happy to connect you to somebody where your money will be well, Smith,

SPEAKER 2 37:13

Most definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1 37:17

Are you gonna hit that next question, Brendon?

SPEAKER 2 37:19

Sure, sure. Um, negative feedback from the person coaching, you have an adverse effect maker, can someone give you the case, someone intentionally give you the wrong advice or lead you down the wrong path, where they jeopardize your career. In the immediate term, if you’re somebody that doesn’t really do any self-reflections, you may take advice is actually negative towards your career in it, it can adversely affect you, in the years to come.

SPEAKER 3 37:50

Now, I think it’s really interesting. So I’ll tell a quick story about how this has impacted me or impacted me. When I worked in finance, you were to be you were to give information, but not to be heard. And there was an opportunity where we were on a partner call, and I spoke up because I knew the answer. And directly after that, I had feedback of like, don’t talk unless you are spoken to. Like, we do not care what you say like it was it was very aggressive credit that says a lot about the culture of that institution. And I think the long aspects of that feedback is I was afraid to use my voice. So I was only going to bring up facts if I knew they were 100%, right, which is quite rare that you are wonderful to write on anything. And as a result, I received feedback of you’re too quiet in meetings, or it never really feels if you’re engaging with us in meetings. And it wasn’t that I was afraid it was just more of I didn’t want to be incorrect. And I didn’t want someone to lash out again. So I think to your second point there, Brandon, it’s really important to understand how it affects you because that can feed into that imposter syndrome that can feed into some of that more ill-gotten impacts to your mental health and physical well, being long after that feedback was received or given. I think another thing of way of looking at it, I’ll say you got again, as a black woman, you have to be very careful of who people are and what their attentions are like. And that’s just the way that like being in spaces that are predominantly white. I’m constantly questioning about what is my rules of engagement? Like I can’t enter the world the same way as I don’t know. And so like, what how are those different and how am I perceived differently and how can I approach that situation the best way that I can, but I would say that that’s another aspect that you have to be very careful because the feedback that they may be giving you could be colored by the privilege in the space and the place that they are in their lives of life. Oh, just speak up. And it’s like, Alright, cool, Jeff, like, I was like, that’s not helpful. Um, what are the tactical ways that I can get a diamond? I think that goes back to that point that I was making. I’m just making sure you’re asking those questions, that you’re understanding not only what they’re asking and telling you, but also, if they have suggestions of how to actually go about doing the thing. Because it’s very easy to tell someone like Speak up, like, what are the tactical ways that I can insert myself in a conversation outside of me owning that meeting? So I hope that answers the question a little rambley there, but at least is the way that I proceed. That

SPEAKER 1 40:44

Was me. That’s great. That’s great answer. I love that answer. No, yeah. Well, I think I think we’ve actually we’ve actually gotten to All Our Questions. Oh, yeah. Which is, which is great. Yeah, so you know what? Like it. I mean, it’s election night. So I think we actually can end a little early. And, and truly like Lena, you have, you have dropped some major, major jobs on us. And like, we just figured out like, a couple weeks ago, that we can clip moments, we can use this in like dislike videos, so we’ll probably be doing that and sharing them on social. But speaking of social media, where can people find you and more and more about you.

SPEAKER 3 41:32

So I do not have a non-personal social media, I think the best way to find me would probably be LinkedIn. And so that’s just me, that is probably the best place to engage in that conversation. If there is an opportunity, once the world opens up again, it’s the world opens up again. I am active in the Charlotte community. So always looking for ways to connect. And so if there is a world where I’m in Houston, I’ll be sure to look up both of you at this conversation, and I would definitely open that up for others.

SPEAKER 1 42:09

Great, great. Yeah. So um, if you’re looking to connect with diligent connect with you, Brandon, where can they find you?

SPEAKER 2 42:18

They can find me on Twitter at go space sigma. And I’m also gonna post them post my LinkedIn in the chat in just a second.

SPEAKER 1 42:26

Okay. Yeah, same. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Twitter at just my gates. Also remember to follow living corporate on Twitter and all social media at living Corp underscore pod. Check out living corporate everywhere you can make sure you give it a follow so that you know what’s coming next. Lena, thank you so much.

SPEAKER 2 42:48

Thank you so much. Opportunity. This was fun. And very new. So

SPEAKER 1 42:56

Yeah, thank you everybody for watching. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER 2 43:02


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