Be a J.E.D.I. Leader, Not a Boss (w/ Omar L. Harris)

Zach sits down with Omar L. Harris, author, entrepreneur, public speaker, executive and advocate, to talk about his latest book, the state of DEI, and how leaders need to fundamentally need to rethink how they engage the workforce of the present and the future. Check the links in the show notes to learn more about Omar and our LinkedIn Learning courses!

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Zach (00:11): Hey, what’s up y’all it’s Zach of Living Corporate. And yo, life is great. I’m speaking from a position of privilege because I am in a great environment. My daughter is good. Even in the last week, we shut down daycare, not we did. They did. They decided to shut down daycare because of COVID because I live in Texas, which is a whole other podcast for another time. But look, life is still good. The daycare has opened back up. You know what I’m saying? Emery’s enjoying it. She’s adjusting pretty well, but it’s a journey for everybody. I will say dropping Emery off at daycare is the worst part of my day. And I do it every single weekday. It is the worst. She’s so sad and I’m sad. I’d be sad, but I can’t cry. What do I look like crying? If I cried at the daycare, why am Emery’s crying that would be not okay.

(01:05): But anyway, again, life is good. Y’all should be noticing we put an announcement on and I think you’ll see it in the newsletter. Living Corporate continues to expand its portfolio with LinkedIn Learning. So excited for y’all to check that out. Make sure you look at the link in the show notes and click it. Don’t just look at it, but like actually see it and then click it. We’re taking some of our most popular, powerful podcasts, which are frankly so many, but we’re slowly integrating them with LinkedIn Learning.

(01:33): And so over time, my vision is that we have a few dozen courses on LinkedIn Learning for you to take and get some type of learning credit for so that you can really continue to grow. Share it with your colleagues who [inaudible 00:01:46] they’re trying to learn and where they want to be a part of the conversation. You don’t have to have the conversation just flip them the link from LinkedIn Learning. It’s not even an ad, but it kind of is an ad because we have a partnership with them, and I really want you all to go check out LinkedIn Learning. All right.

(01:59): That’s another good way. If you don’t want to like support Living Corporate by dropping some money in on the website or giving, dropping some money on the Cash App, on the PayPal, you can just watch LinkedIn Learning. Because we get per cents off them.

(02:15): So anyway, life is good for other reasons. Life is also good because we have new news. I’m not going to drop the news right now, but just know I’m excited about the news that’s coming. All right. Really dope stuff. Shout out to Blind.

(02:29): I’m having a really good conversation with Kyum Kim, the founder of Blind. Just talking about really just what this next season looks like in platforms really supporting the employee. Not like certain platforms that really just gather your information and then report back to the companies and sell your data. Or position themselves really as I don’t know, some type of exploiter of people. That’s what some of these platforms do that talk about community, but they’re not really focused on community. They’re focused on exploitation. It’s really gross. And they also ask a lot of them, a lot of these techie platforms ask black and brown folks to do labor for free. Yo, we’re not doing labor for free no more. All right. It’s 2021, slavery ended. Well, I know we have the prison industrial complex, but I’m saying chattel slavery ended several centuries ago.

(03:17): I think we can like, [inaudible 00:03:18] has it been several centuries? It was like two, a little over… It was like 200 something. No, 150 years. I don’t know. Look, the point is, we’re not in chattel slavery no more. All of that being said, yo, I’m really excited about today’s podcast. We have a really dope guest, Omar Harris. Omar Harris is the author of, Be A J.E.D.I.. Now look, I’m not really going to get into the book right now because we talk all about it in our discussion. But I’m thankful for Omar. Omar has been a friend of the show for some years now. We’ve been meaning to like connect and like chop it up period, before he even published this book. So I’m just glad that we were able to make the time and make the connection to talk now. Because the content of his book and really like the substance of our conversation is great. So shout out to Omar. Before we get into Omar though, and our conversation that we had, I want y’all to make sure that y’all tap in with Tristan. So we’ll be right back.

Zach (07:54): Omar. My goodness, man. We’ve been going around, welcome to the show.

Omar Harris (07:59): Pleasure to meet you in person. You know, we got introduced by a mutual acquaintance last year and I’ve been watching the work you’re doing in the organization, Living Corporate. And I’m just happy to be a part of the platform.

Zach (08:11): Man, well look, it’s an honor to have you here. Of course, like I see your name, I’m familiar with, we follow each other on LinkedIn. LinkedIn has just become like–

Omar (08:21): Oh yeah.

Zach (08:22): The space man, like it’s [over talk 00:08:23].

Omar (08:24): It’s the spot. It’s the spot man.

Zach (08:26): Right. And it’s not even an ad. It’s just like, it’s a real. I mean, like if you’re not really on there. So let’s just get right into it and let’s talk about like what it is you do, and then why you do with what you do?

Omar (08:37): All right. So I do a bunch of stuff. There’s probably many people, and the guests on your show would say to start off, I transitioned out of a corporate career, a 20 year pharma career, for the second time last year. So, I started my overall career in 1998 with Pfizer, a company that you like to talk about a lot on LinkedIn as well. And so, I started my corporate career in 98 as a sales rep with Pfizer. And I matriculated all the way to global general management in countries like Indonesia and Brazil. Along the way, two of the companies I worked for, got purchased by other pharma companies. And I decided at those moments to kind of opt out and then do my own thing, in both of those instances. One happened to happen 2010, and then 10 years later happened to happen in 2020.

(09:26): So kind of like very symmetrical there, like every 10 years, it seemed like a company that I was working for was getting purchased. And I was getting an opportunity to kind of do what I really, really want to do. So, along the journey, I’ve always been very passionate about putting my ideas out into the world. And things that I learned, as I learned them, practically trying to help other people accelerate their learning curves, and and speed up the process to success. So I started publishing books back in, I mean, business books, leadership books, back in 2019 while I was still working for large global corporations like GSK. And I published another book last year, while I was still working for Allergan Pharmaceuticals. And this is the first time I published a book really, when I’m not working for a big corporation this June, this past June. June 25th on my birthday when I launched my most recent book.

(10:20): So, all that being said is, really what I’m passionate about is high-performance coaching, executive coaching, especially for minority and [inaudible 10:16] vepac, and female leaders who are emerging into these VP level positions in these large corporations. Kind of helping to show them, helping them sort out their learning curves. As well as writing, publishing. I’m passionate about technology, so I’m also launching an application very soon that’s going to help enhance employee inclusion. So that’s coming out very soon. Then public speaking, motivational speaking, all these things are kind of in the umbrella. Consulting, of course, both DEI and just high-performance team leadership type consulting, organizational consulting. So that’s all kind of in the umbrella of what I’m doing now. My sister is an actress. We’re also working on creating screenplays and trying to get better representation in Hollywood, as well, through our work.

(11:22): So just trying to, wherever I can, I’m at a stage in my life where I just want to do what I want to do. I want to have fun while I do it. I want to make a positive impact on the world while doing it. So that’s kind of where I’m at.

Zach (11:34): Man, you’re cooking man.

Omar (11:40): Listen, you put the ingredients together, they kind of marinate for a while, and then it’s time to put it on the pot. You gotta get on the stove and make somthing happen.

Zach (11:48): So let’s talk a little bit more about the work that you’re doing around diversity, equity inclusion, or as you talk about J.E.D.I. Justice, equity, diversity inclusion. Talk to me about, and I recognize that you didn’t create the term J.E.D.I., but let’s talk about, first of all, what is justice in this context? And then why did you go that bend? I’m curious about this in a space where folks are almost treating diversity, equity, inclusion, like the new oil, boom. It’s kind of like a space where we can really get in and like, you can do some workshops and get some quick money, and then get out. There’s plenty of space to play, where it’s fairly safe. And that often involves, in my experience, appeasing to this white moderate. But the way that you appease to the white moderate, is not by talking about things like justice.

Omar (12:41): No.

Zach (12:41): So, talk to me about this term, the idea, and why you got there?

Omar (12:47): So, I lived overseas for eight years, from 2012 to 2020. I was in Turkey. I was in Indonesia. I was in Brazil. I moved back to the U.S. in March of 2020, right on the cusp of a global pandemic, and right into the George Floyd protest, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery’s situation, social justice protest, and one of the most important elections in American history. I come back to America at that moment. And I just published, The Servant Leader’s Manifesto, April, 2000, 1920, I just published a new book. So it was not my intention to just dive right into another kind of space but, I recognized early on that it wasn’t enough. Like what I’d already written was already not outdated, but it was not going far enough. It was kind of like, it gets you a middle state but it’s not going to you where we need to go to.

(13:40): And basically, what I was trying to do was, I saw that the Business Round Table had published this new statement of a corporation in 2019. And then I saw, I learned about J.E.D.I.. First of all, through the OCW J.E.D.I. collaborative, I just found the website, and started reading about the work that they’re doing and then started getting into this. There’s a whole world of policy link, and all these organizations doing all this amazing work, that had been in this space for years, that are finally kind of getting some shine. And I started going down a rabbit hole and I was like, well, if CEO’s state, that they want to create more value for more stakeholders. They want to not only chase the shareholder profit, but they also want to add value to employees, customers, communities, the environment. How are they going to do it?

(14:34): And I don’t think a lot of people have made this connection, but I see J.E.D.I. as the how, to accomplishing this goal. I think that if you can do embrace J.E.D.I. principles internally, in a corporation, really eliminating injustices, eradicating equities, expand diversity, and enhance inclusion, you can then, if your employees feel that happening, that they will begin to add value to the other stakeholders of customer, community, the environment. And shareholders are going to be taken care of because, you have a lower risk enterprise is doing good work in the world. So, it was just making a connection between this thought that was out here, and this thing that was out here and saying, these two things go together, they play together. And I want to write a book and talk about how they’re connected, and how you can’t do one without the other. And so that was kind of the overall intention of writing the new book, and how I got into the space.

(15:32): And I think that J.E.D.I. is so important. So I was talking to advisors and people that I respect in the global leadership space, and they were like, well, Omar, do we really need the J? I mean, the J kind of turns people off. And CEOs [inaudible 00:15:48] the J, and it’s, can we just do the, E-I? It’s already known, people already. I was like, no, the J is fundamental. There are so many injustices that happen in corporation’s walls, every day that are not being resolved. It’s not just about inequity. Inequity is one thing. And so, it’s incomplete picture. If you do D, E and I, it’s an incomplete picture. The D, I think is kind of like an outcome of the D and I work. But without the J, without that justice component, without companies basically saying we’re going to do what’s right even if it’s painful, internally and externally, then everything else kind of falls flat. So I think the J is the most important of all those four letters in the acronym. And so, I couldn’t, and it wasn’t just because I love Star Wars. I couldn’t do this book without going through the lens of the J of corporate social justice. And talking about what that is, and how it manifests, and how that’s so crucial to actually tackling the issues inherent in trying to deliver value for a new group of stakeholders, for the first time.

Zach (16:58): So, I mean, walk me through justice at work. I think about how many times other black and brown professionals that I speak to, who have been done wrong, objectively wrong. Like they’ve been passed over for a promotion. They’ve been held back. Credit has not been properly attributed to their work. Credit had been stolen. Talk to me about what does justice look like to right those wrongs, and make someone whole, at work? And then, also, what’s the business imperative to do that?

Omar (17:34): So, justice is inherently dismantling barriers that would allow people to live a full and fully realized life. So anything that’s happening within your corporation, that is a barrier to someone living a fulfilled life. I think one of the biggest injustices that happens in American corporations today, is a lack of a standard maternity leave and paternity leave. These are injustices to future generations of workers. So I think that’s a basic injustice. It is injust, that women in America have to make a choice between motherhood and success, still in 2021. It’s still a choice that people have to navigate. And it leads to the inequity of the gender pay gap, because if you’re a woman who’s a high flyer, and takes three maternity leaves, and has three children. And let’s say you only sit out like a month, each time.

(18:36): That’s three months when you weren’t working, when the men were working. Those three months will set you back. If you add them, if you accumulate them over time, they set you back depending on what was happening in the corporation at that time. And then you get passed over for promotion, you get passed up. You don’t move as fast through the organization. You’re not taking care of and therefore, your salary separates from th salary of the men around you. And so, that injustice of, a lack of protection around maternity and paternity, leaves to the inequity of the gender pay gap. That’s a simple one. That’s a very simple one that we can talk about, but there’s much more insidious injustices that happened. Which is things like, people who are found or accused of sexual harassment, not being taken out of the system. Or known racist actors in corporations, getting a slap on the wrist and not getting taken out of the system.

(19:29): Or known discrimination policies. For example, corporate leaders purposefully creating discriminatory practices. Like lending at banks, things of that nature, they create these policies and then making employees promote injust practices to do the community and to customers. That’s an injustice. So we have so many injustices that have to be dealt with. And the barriers have to be brought down so that employees don’t feel that they are put in these positions, these challenges, and these challenging spaces where they are constantly trying to navigate their value system, their morality, and the goals of the company. Those three things should not be incongruent with each other, inside of businesses.

Zach (20:19): And I think what you’re speaking to though, like this constant navigation of morals, ethics, business imperatives, that really kind of describes our capitalistic culture to a tee. And playing the game.

Omar (20:34): Right. That’s why you can’t do without the J. That’s why the J is so important, because it’s inherent inside of the system. It’s embedded in the system of corporations.

Zach (20:44): So then, let’s talk about this then, like you shared earlier that, people were kind of, eh, on the J. Talk to me about the conversations you’ve had.

Omar (20:55): Yeah. So, I think that I’m trying to raise awareness of the J, and I’m trying to bring examples that people can kind of connect with, on the J. That are just basic injustices that companies can tackle. And always, the thing that makes it easy for me to do this is, looking at it through the employee lens. So if you look at it from the point of view of the employees and what is right or wrong for them, then it becomes very easy to identify a bevy of injustices that need to be eliminated in corporations. You know, all the wrongs that have to be righted that have not been righted historically, over time.

(21:34): And so, you begin breaking those injustices down for people when they start saying, oh, okay, that’s what you mean by; first of all, you have to have a shared language. What do you mean by injustice? Are you talking about, because people get confused. They’re like, should I be, is this about corporate public statements? Is it about more than just putting the money in the right areas? And I say, listen, you’re externalizing something you haven’t fixed internally yet. You know, I care far less about donations to the NAACP and HBCUs and all that stuff. Which is great. It’s a great. These great public statements are amazing, but you’re not going to do the internal work. You’re not going to empower your DEI lead internally, to actually clean stuff up. And they need to be empowered to clean stuff up. Your DEI lead is like your corporate compliance officer for the culture of your organization. So, whereas compliance is about externalizing risks and things of that nature. I look at DEI as the internal culture risk assessor, who comes in and says, listen, these are the; they should go to the CEO and say, this map of injustices and equities are business risks.

(22:37): These are the risks we’re facing, the likelihood of these risks, the impact of them happening. And if we don’t address this right now, we are not going to be in business five, 10 years from now. Or, our license to operate is going to be severely diminished. And when you start talking about the J, through the lens of corporate business, risk, people start, they [inaudible 00:22:58], oh, okay, now I get what you’re talking about. Now I understand why this is a priority. You’re not talking about socialism or left-wing whatever. You’re talking about business risk and we have to manage business risk, because, then we get paid the big bucks to manage business risk. And these are social business risks internally, that we have to deal with.

Zach (23:20): You know, it’s interesting. I do believe that, again, I’m really focused on this J word. Because we’ve talked about it a few different times. We’ve had Brittany Janae Harris from the Winters Group, as well as Marie Francis Winters, who’s the CEO and founder of the Winters Group. We talk about this concept of justice and several folks talking about organizational justice. I think the reason why, in my experience, folks kind baulk at the concept of justice, at work, is like they associate it with someone getting fired. Talk to me about how you’ve had to address any of those insecurities.

Omar (23:58): I address it head on. Yes, people have to get fired. Yes, you cannot. If someone was guilty of fraud in your organization, would you leave them on board or would you fire them? You would fire them.

Zach (24:12): Absolutely.

Omar (24:12): This is social fraud. This is social fraud. It’s the same thing. It’s not over-complicated. It’s something that is very, very easy. If you do wrong, you cannot, you lose your license to operate. You lose your ability to lead in our organization. And, the problem is the privilege, that comes inherent with climbing the corporate ladder. So the higher up you go, the higher, the harder it is to get rid of you. Sort of like, you become more insidious to the organization. I’ve seen senior leaders with terrible track records on justice and equity, basically get buried, or basically get moved around, once they can’t hide their damage anymore, or explain it away. But they don’t get fired, they get shifted because they’re too big to fail. I guess. They’re too important to the organization. Or maybe they know where the bodies are buried. You can’t get rid of them.

(25:13): And that is just, when you look up and you see people who are known toxic players, not getting dealt with, it does two things in a corporation. It gives me permission to do the same thing. And it disengages me, because it says, okay, there is whatever the company says on the masthead or in the value statement, in practice that’s not real. And so, if you’re big, the millions of dollars you spent to build your corporate purpose statement, working with McKinsey or whoever it was. If you don’t police that, then all of your employees are going to check out, because they’re going to be like, they see the disconnect. It’s obvious. So why would I bring my whole self to work, when most of your intention is trying to protect these 10 or 15 people at the top, because they know where the bodies are buried or whatever it is. It leads to rampant disengagement, which is what we’re seeing now. People are just checking out of work. They’re like, listen, this is for the birds because we’ve heard the lip service for too long. We don’t see congruency. And we’re out.

Zach (26:21): Especially if you think about it like this, with the coining is, the great resignation. Like there is this moment in time where folks are just, they’re fed up. And some of this has to do with, a lot of this has to do with folks just, I hope, maybe I’m too optimistic, but my hope is that folks are really starting to see like this capitalistic exploited. A machine for what it is, and all of it’s exploited function. And that they’re realizing like life is short and we’ve got to turn it around. I’m curious, as you think about J.E.D.I., you think about work and creating this space that is better, overall for everybody, including those on the margins. Where does like Gen Z come into that? How do you anticipate that they will impact, accelerate, or slow down this season, or this idea around adjust equitable, diversity, and inclusive place to work?

Omar (27:25): Well, I think they want it. I think they live in a world that is, I mean, in their world, they don’t live in a world that, our parents grew up in. They live in a world where, basically, you’re connected with everyone else in the world. For the first time in history, when you get your first Facebook account at the age of 10 or whatever it is, you’re connected to the world. And this has never existed in the history of the world. Having that level of access to all these different races, nationalities issues, things that are happening. This global awareness. So the social media is leading to not just the hottest new Tik Tok dances, but global awareness. But I think if you look at it, a Tik Tok dance is very emblematic of what I think about Gen Z.

(28:11): You see a group of Korean teenagers doing a dance one day on Tik Tok, and you see a group of Brazilians doing it next, Americans are next, Canadians are next, Europeans are next. The influence of people’s perceptions around what is cool and what should be done as much faster now, than ever before. And when people are done wrong, it also goes around much faster. I think the CEOs haven’t woke up to the fact that the instantaneous news cycle about toxicity in businesses is moving at the speed of light right now. You think the game hasn’t changed. You’re in your shady, dark boardroom doing your whatever, machinations and Makavelian things. Everyone knows what’s happening. They know. These Gen Zs, they know what’s happening. They talk to each other. They hav a connecting point that’s never existed before. So, I think their tolerance for the nonsense is far lower than the rest of us.

(29:08): I also think that the information around how you can make an income, without having to go work for a corporation, or even go to college. And get saddled with bank loans, there’s so much more information out there now that people are making very different choices about their lives than we were making. Right now, if you’re 17 you’re like; you know, I have a 14-year-old nephew and he’s like, his big thing is Formula One Racing, but like video game racing. He could become a professional digital Formula One Racer, go pro at the age of 18, and be making a hundred thousand dollars a year. Working for a virtual racing club, without having to go to college, Zach.

Zach (29:57): Right. No. And that’s for me, like, I don’t know. I don’t know if legacy executives or folks at these big, big institutions really realize that the world is way flatter than it used to be. Like, the gatekeepers are changing. The gatekeepers are no longer like people, they’re really algorithms. They’re making sure if you get seen or not, but I don’t need this individual to get to my goal. Okay, they don’t wanna help me. Okay, I’ll go, I’ll figure it out this way. You don’t want to give me? I can go do this. I can go do that. And then on top of that, yes, I agree with you that the tolerance for the nonsense is just way lower. I know for me, so I’m a millennial, I’m 31 years old and my tolerance is pretty low.

(30:46): Like, I’ll move around. But my siblings who are teenagers, and are like teenagers and a couple, one of them is 21. The other one is 19. Their tolerance is like non-existent.

Omar (31:02): Nil.

Zach (31:02): They don’t care. Oh what? Okay, I’m done. I’ll do something else. I’m like, you’re not even gonna? And it’s not a critique, it’s just like, wow you’re not even going to like, deal with some nonsense for a little while just to see? No, like it’s over.

Omar (31:16): They live in a world of opportunities, Zach. They live in the world. The world is their oyster. You’ve got 12-year-olds all ready to become millionaires on YouTube, and Tik Tok, and Instagram. It’s a different world. So education and corporations have to fundamentally shift their value proposition, to get people to opt in. It’s not like you have to go this way anymore. It’s not the path you have to take anymore to seek out a life. Like if somebody wants to make 75 to a hundred K, there’s a lot of ways to make 75 to a hundred K in the world today, more than ever before now. You can make $75,000 alone, if that’s your goal, you can make it. And you don’t have to deal with a lot of nonsense to do so. And so, I don’t think corporations understand who they’re actually competing with. In a university, I don’t think they really understand that they’re competing with an entire new lifestyle change, and a new paradigm. And if you don’t give me purpose, I will give purpose to myself.

Zach (32:28): That’s it right there. And that is a fundamental change is that last part is so true, man. So let’s do this though, before I let you go, you have book it’s available now on Amazon. It’s called, Be A J.E.D.I. leader, Not A Boss. Let’s talk about, I know we’ve been talking about J.E.D.I. Let’s talk about why this book, why now? Talk to me about what is it that folks are going to learn and pick up, if they go and get this book right now?

Omar (32:56): So my intention and my hope for readers who pick up the book, first of all, is that, once you read all of my books, you see that there’s a different path for leadership. You don’t have to opt into the toxic boss, hierarchical way of leading organizations. And so, first of all, to say there’s other opportunities for how you choose to lead. Now, if you choose to lead with a servant leadership mindset, you choose to serve and support others as your reason for leading. That comes with a cost, with great power comes great responsibility. You can’t just be a great people leader and take care of people, and be blind to what’s happening in terms of their real lives. So, the injustices they face, the inequities they confront., How the diversity is either valued or not and the level of inclusion they experience.

(33:50): So you have to kind of now begin to lean into these spaces, and begin tackling these issues. When you begin doing that, you begin going from servant leadership to J.E.D.I. leadership. So you begin to actually move there, and why should you move there? Well, you should move there because the purpose, basically purpose can be bigger than even just serving is [inaudible 00:34:10] supporting other people. You can then begin to add value through your corporate posts, to customers, communities, the environment, and shareholders. So if you care about these things, you care about the fact that many communities have been left behind by businesses. If you care about the fact that the environment is being damaged every; I mean, you know, there’s a thing called, Earth Overshoot Day, which basically the day, every year, when the earth exhauses natural resources. Do you know when Earth Overshoot Day was in 2021, Zach?

Zach (34:40): When?

Omar (34:40): March. It already happened. Last year, it was August, this year, it was March. So we are consuming, we’re going past the point of no return every year, faster than ever before. So, if you care about the environment, if you care about these things, you have to embrace J.E.D.I. leadership principles, do the internal work. This is not about right or left. It’s not about any political agenda. It’s about the reason why we work. The reason why we go to work for corporations. It is because there is a bigger purpose behind what we’re doing. We’re not just making widgets anymore. We’re not on the assembly line doing this, we’re trying to solve real societal problems. And business is a place where these types of problems can be tackled more easily, than any other form today. And so, that’s really one premise behind the book.

(35:33): The other premise is, okay, so then how do we do it? And what are the externalities we can expect once we make the journey from where we are, through servant leadership to J.E.D.I. leadership? And how do we really begin to tackle these higher order issues inherent in stakeholder capitalism? So I think for me, the book is, it’s ahead of its time. I mean, basically I think probably two, three years from now, this will be kind of a natural thing people were thinking, but I wanted to write the book now, aspirationaly, for people who are looking for the next thing, looking to keep pushing the envelope, keep pushing the status quo. Then, if you see yourself as being on the cutting edge of leadership, this is the most cutting edge leadership book written, in recent times.

Zach (36:24): Man look, Omar, it’s been a pleasure to have you. I know that we were, this is on me too, trying to find time. I’m so glad we’re able to finally get you on.

Omar (36:33): Yes Sir.

Zach (36:34): On the show, and a shout out to you and all your work. The book is called, Be A J.E.D.I. (Justice, Equity, Diversity and Inclusion) Leader, Not A Boss, is available right now on Amazon. Make sure you check it out. Omar, man, we consider you a friend of the show. We hope to have you back soon, brother.

Omar (36:52): Yes, sir. Thank you very much brother. Take care. Have a good one.

Zach (36:56): All right, peace.

Zach (37:35): Y’all I want to thank Omar again. Shout out to Omar Harris, shout out to the book. Make sure y’all click the link in the show notes. And listen, make sure that you’re like observing our surroundings. Look around. If the space that you inhabit right now, isn’t really welcoming or celebrating all of who you are, seek another space. I promise you there’s a better space out there for you. Shout out to all the initiatives, all of the programs, all of the organizations that are seeking to make true systemic change, and not just all this like tap dance stuff. In fact, it’s interesting, like you see these organizations. It’s funny. It’s really, really, and when I say funny, I’m like not funny, ha ha. More like funny like I see the game y’all playing.

(38:19): It’s interesting, like there are groups out there that were like really loud about diversity, equity, inclusion, right when George Floyd died. And now, like they’re pivoting. You see a certain rebrand happening around some of these organizations. So they took the bag for was. I tweeted a couple of weeks ago that this season of exploiting DEI for the bag, it’s going to come to an end. And I didn’t mean that in some way that like we’re going to come to some big retribution or there’s going to be some great reckoning. That’s not what I meant. I’m just saying you can peep the tea leaves. You can look at the scenery and see that the folks who saw this for like the little run that it was, they’ve pumped it and now they’ve dumped it. So what I’m saying is, what’s going to be left over these next, the rest of this decade, my hope is that it’s going to be about the authentic work.

(39:11): And frankly, calling out the [inaudible 00:39:13] of those organizations and institutions. I’m excited about where we’re at. I’m excited about this space. I’m excited about this work. Shout out to everyone doing that work. I would get a bunch of shout outs off, but just at this point, we’ve interviewed like, I don’t know, hundreds of people. Like, I feel like I’m going to miss somebody, but y’all know who y’all are. Much love to y’all.

(39:32): And listen, if you haven’t already make sure you get Living Corporate five stars on Apple Podcasts. And look, I can look at the download data and then look at our podcast ratings. And I can tell everybody ain’t giving us five stars on the podcasts. And we got several, several, several, several thousand. We have a lot of folks who listen to Living Corporate. I need y’all to give us five stars on the podcasts. And you might be like, Zach, why you always ask us to give you five stars on Apple Podcasts? The reason why, is because the more stars we get, the better placement we get on these like little charts and stuff. You know what I mean? The more people learn about Living Corporate, the better, the more that we can grow. The better for us. That’s the best way. Like if you don’t want to even like drop some money into’ Stripe or to PayPal or the Cash App, you know what I mean? Give us five stars. Like that literally would make my day. All right. Until next time y’all, it’s been Zach. You’ve been listening to Living Corporate. Peace.

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