See It to Be It : Mindfulness Coach (w/ John Marshall)

Amy C. Waninger welcomes mindfulness coach John Marshall to the show this week on See It to Be It. John is the founder of Humessence, a mindful life & career coaching platform, whose mission is to bring the human essence back to modern business by producing present professionals. Check the links in the show notes to connect with John!

You can connect with John on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Check out the Humessence website.

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Learn more about Lead at Any Level.


Amy C. Waninger (00:49): Hey everybody. This is See It To Be It, the Wednesday podcast from Living Corporate. Living Corporate is a digital media network that centers and amplifies black and brown people at work. My name is Amy C. Waninger and I’m the host of See It To Be It. When I was growing up in rural Southern Indiana, I didn’t know people who went to college or who worked in professional roles. I didn’t know what those jobs look like or how to break into them for that matter. I didn’t even know those jobs existed, but this show isn’t about me. It’s about my guests. Every week. I bring you career stories from everyday role models in jobs, you may not know exist. More importantly, the folks I interview share their perspectives as black and brown professionals in jobs and environments, where they may be the only. My guest today is John Marshall, who just founded a company called, Humessence. But before we get to the interview, we’re going to tap in with Tristan for some career advice.

(04:50): Welcome back to See It To Be It. My guest today is John Marshall. John is a career sales and business development professional, experienced yoga and meditation teacher, and a certified life coach. Each of these lives combined for the mission of his company, Humessence, to bring the human essence back to modern business by producing present professionals. I already know I’m going to learn a lot from John, because these are areas all areas that I struggle with. John, welcome to the show.

John Marshall (05:18): Oh, happy to be here. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Amy (05:22): So I have to ask, because, going from the business world, business development, which is really fast-paced and high pressure, and then into this completely zen-like persona that you have in all the conversations that we’ve had, how do you marry those two? And how did you get to where you are?

John (05:46): You know, it’s funny because when I spent the past seven and a half years or so working for ExxonMobil in the business development and sales capacity and then you say that zen-like type presence. So three and a half years back or so is when I started teaching yoga. So January of 2017 was when I first took my very first yoga class ever in January of 2018 was when I taught my first yoga class ever. So when I feel passionate about something I’m all in. So I went all in on that front, and then, you could actually see this as it started to morph into the fabric of my life as it was then. So not only am I showing up like this now in my life, you know, to start Humessence and really start to bring this to the world, and back to organizations.

(06:43): But I really brought this type of persona and this practice into my life, in the sales and business development world too. And I’d say that through those conversations, negotiations, tough moments, like contracts that were up in the air, things that can bring a lot of stress, and a lot of fast pace, a lot of long nights. Like you said, it was easier to maintain that sense of equanimity and balance with that practice in my life, over the past three years, like that interim period of merging, for sure. And then, what I did was brought that together. How it impacted me in the corporate world and how it impacted even just my success in stepping up in the business and moving up in the business there and how it affected me. Just even leading a room meeting wise, you know, I wanted to bring those learnings and bring that balance in life to other people. So that’s really what birth Humessence and how we ended up here today.

Amy (07:49): That’s awesome. Can we go back to the beginning of how you got into oil and gas to begin with, because you grew up in Philly?

John (08:00): Pittsburgh. Other side. Other side of the [inaudible 00:08:01].

Amy (08:01): Pittsburgh. I’m sorry. I have the right state. Okay. So you grew up in Pittsburgh, which is not known for its, you know, its vast oil fields, I’m guessing. So how did you end up in the oil and gas industry to begin with?

John (08:14): Yeah. So PA did, you know, once the shale boom started to happen, they did start getting some drilling up there. But honestly, I went to Penn State University and I studied essentially, the brother to petroleum and natural gas engineering. I studied energy engineering and energy business finance. So I have two bachelor’s degrees from there and a minor in environmental engineering. And it’s funny because that my major, was what petroleum natural gas engineering is to upstream, I was to downstream and power generation. And power generation specifically, alternative energy. So we studied solar, wind, geothermal, like all the different aspects of project management of alternative energy. And then, you know, it came down to getting those last offers. My last year of school and Exxon was at the top there.

(09:13): And so, through school I did intern through three other companies. So three other Fortune 500 companies there, started with GE after the summer after my sophomore year. I was at a finance internship there with GE Energy. And then, after my junior year was in a business development internship with Hess Corporation. So that was on their power generation side as well. So working with natural gas, fire, power plants there. And then, after my senior year, before my extra semester that I did to finish both of those degrees, I worked with Samsung, Samsung Construction and Trading. So not Samsung Electronics, like you would see it, construction and trading is very heritage Korean company, like their headquarters. And there, we were building a wood pellet biofuel supply chain from the U.S. sent back to Korea, to co-fire in their coal fire power plants.

(10:14): So, I had some very interesting internship experiences across the energy spectrum. And then, with ExxonMobil kind of came in into their downstream organization right away. So I was in pricing there where I priced at different points, pretty much any wholesale gasoline and diesel that they sold across the Eastern United States from the Rocky Mountains, pretty much to the east coast. And then moved into business development where I was in the lubricants organization. So, all of their strategic global accounts there. I handled the contracts across North and South America for them. And that was, with global accounts, that was our GM, Toyota, Mercedes, Nissan, like a lot of those like larger accounts that we’ve had very long-term relationships with. And then, from there went into my own account management role as a national account manager on the fuel side. So, just working with our wholesale customers there, I had Circle K, 7-Eleven, Sonoco, some of our larger retailers and Mansfield Oil Co.

(11:25): So that was a great experience like directly managing the accounts. I loved working with the customers. And, you know, that was kind of right around where I was getting deeper into this work on the yoga side of things. Getting interested into what coaching, how coaching brought those two together, because that was really the knot that tied the yoga experience. And how I can bring that type of presence to people’s lives. And that by giving them the same experience that I went through and where I could also tie the business aspect of it, to say that now, I can step in as a coach, as a leader to help teams get more balanced, help, bring the human essence back to business. So people feel like they’re in the place that they want to be, that they feel whole and able to show up at work, and show up in a room, without letting these old behavior patterns get in the way.

(12:22): I’d say it’s a key transition point for all things that we’re trying to change in the corporate world. I mean, you can even look at the diversity and inclusion space. Like you can look at stress, anxiety, like anything of those habit patterns that cause bad behavior, it comes down to being in the moment. So it’s about cultivating that awareness of these different sensations coming up that cause that behavior pattern. So, you can instill all of the knowledge at an intellectual level that you want. And, until you can act upon it in the meeting or in the moment, in a conversation, when you realize that old habit pattern coming up, you’re not going to see the systemic change. You’re not going to see the behavior change moving forward until you implemented it in the moment. The key to that is through the mindful self-awareness practices, to understand those sensations, to be able to see the habit pattern and step into a new one. So, that’s specifically, the place that we’re focusing at with Humessence to really cause that change, and cause that transition. So, that’s kind of my career story there, into what I’m doing now.

Amy (13:44): Excellent. Can you take us back to that first yoga class? What brought you there? What spurred the decision to go? And then, what was that transformation like for you? Because that seems to have been a pivot point for you.

John (13:58): Oh, this is a good one. So the girl I was dating at the time, she had been asking me to go to yoga with her for maybe over a year at that point. And I’m like, ah, no, I’m good. I’m good. I’m an athlete, you know, that’s where, you know, I’m like, oh, that’s where females go to stretch. It was just so like unaware of what this practice even was. I mean, so before that I had interest in Eastern philosophy. I mean, I was handed a classic of Eastern philosophy by a friend in high school at 15, and just didn’t know how that tied to a yoga practice whatsoever. So, after that year of her asking me to go, I was like, all right, you know what? I’m in. I’ll go. And I’ll tell you what, man, first of all, it kicked my butt. I was like, okay, okay. This is really a workout. Because it was the powerful flow class at the studio that I teach out today, Big Power Yoga. And it really kicked my butt, and it was hot. It was heated too. So I had no idea of the extent at which the room was heated. When I got out of there, I was like, wow, I don’t know if I can drive home. I need some electrolytes. So one, it handled the physical part to where I was like, okay, no, this is a real workout that I can replace some of my regimen with, but then it resonated more on a mental side.

(15:36): And not even just mental, I’d say like a mind, body connection. To where it connected my interest in Eastern philosophy of the past. And that type of oneness that I had read about studied in college as well. And then, incorporated that into another thing that I loved in moving my body. And so that experience right away, they have a program called, The 40 Days Program where you go, you have to do six yoga practices a week, five in studio. You have to go to one group meeting and discuss different topics with your groups, different questions there. And I thought that 40 days was so transformative just to take a step back, look at my life as it was like, what was happening. Take time that I didn’t think that I had, and I made the time to do that. And even if it was just the time taken to read the book that went along with it, practice each day, meet the people within my group, go, hear from others at these group discussions, give my own word to these group discussions.

(16:51): You know, it was a transformative experience and really taking that time, the time to step back from it all really helped me look and say, okay, who am I surrounding myself with? Who am I being at work? How am I showing up for the commitments in my life? Like whether it be family, friends, any other roles that I may play. And, on taking that step back, just felt a deep connection to the way things are that you kind of start to develop this deeper, profound acceptance of the way things are versus the way that you wish they would be. And then when those conflict is typically, when you find misery start to arise. When what you feel should be and what is are different. So you just start to look at what is and make changes there.

(17:50): And I started living that life, and started practicing more meditation. My yoga practice developed more and more. And then I started advertising the teacher training program there. And I was like, you know what? I love this. Like, let’s just do teacher training. Why not? So I jumped in, started teacher training in the middle of 2017 there. And there was, I think there was 35 of us in the training class. And you know, you get to know everyone so well, you go so deep into who you are because you hammer in one sequence, but really a lot of the time is spent being able to step up in front of the room and lead, from who you are authentically. Not who an audience wants you to be, not who you want to appeal to be for some progress or for some promotion or anything.

(18:47): And the funny thing is, when you learn that to show up in a room authentically as you are, is when those things come. Is when the promotion comes, is when the insights come. And I’d say that was the shift into the workplace was a lot starting to get into that teacher training and really standing up in front of the room authentically as myself. And that has developed after that six months there ending December of 17. And that was 200 hours of training. Then I entered into January where I started teaching, and also entered another like kind of a higher level teacher training program at the same studio. And did another 300 hours of training over 2018 as I was teaching. So it just started getting deeper, and deeper, and deeper into showing up to lead people in that room. And it translated into my life too, showing up in the corporate world as well. So again, over the past three and a half years, I’ve been working on different programs to develop with Humessence, developing my coaching skills and that background as a certified life coach, and tying that all together over the past few years to create this vision. And really just help people find the same thing that made my life so much more balanced and just connect it to who I really was, who I really am.

Amy (20:23): How does Humessence work with companies first of all? And then, I know, so there’s like a B to B side of Humessence. Can we cover that first and then we’ll talk about the B to C side of Humessence?

John (20:38): Awesome. Yes. Yes. So on the B to B side we do workshops. So there are more quick hit things we can do, and then there’s a little bit more of a group coach and container. So we’re starting small on that end before we get to the technology side of things, I’ll touch on that, but that’s a little bit more down the road right now. We have different workshops. For example, I have one called, Lead Your Life, where it’s about, and everyone in the workshop, balancing their lives between commitments and roles, seeing a picture of what that looks like. So the framework of how we approach things is acknowledgement first. So first you acknowledge that there’s a problem. You acknowledge that you’d like something to change. Even if it’s not a problem, even if you acknowledge that there’s something missing and you want to go a little bit deeper. So it’s first, there’s that acknowledgement.

(21:37): And then there’s the awareness of it. So even with the Lead Your Life workshop, you create an awareness of where you are in your life right now. So it basically looks like a chart with all of your roles on it and how much energy you’re putting towards each of those, in that current state of your life. So it gives you an awareness of where are the imbalances in my life? Where are the imbalances in my work? And then, it transitions to a little bit more of a smart goal setting type of environment to where we mirror those two. And we set goals along the lines of, okay, how do I become in balance with this picture of my life? Where do I want to be in the next call it two, three, four years. And then we work back from there to say, are these the right commitments that you’re making right now?

(22:33): Do you need to drop one from your life? Do you need to add one? How do you contribute to them on a regular basis to maintain that balance, to get to where you want to be? Whether that be a different place in the company, whether that be your team wanting to get to a different goal within the company. And it’s that, that is where we get to action. So there’s acknowledgement, here’s the problem we’d like something to change. Awareness, okay. Here’s where we’re at right now. And then action. Here’s how we take the steps, implement different practices, implement different behaviors to get to where we want to be in the future. So that’s the methodology that surrounds each of the workshops. So we’ll have, that’s one workshop there. We have one specifically on feedback. Like digesting and delivering feedback is a really powerful one.

(23:34): Also with team dynamics. So understanding, understanding who you’re working with, how they work best together and how to be fully present with each other. And show up authentically as you are in your team to be able to move towards one shared vision. So it’s a lot about getting around that vision and how do you take the right actions with the team members to keep everyone in line with that vision? So it’s constantly working with people on that front. We tie the self-awareness piece into each of the workshops that we do. And because that is the foundation, developing that self-awareness. For the action piece of that, developing self-awareness is essential to being able to take different action in the moment, because in the moment is when the old behavior patterns can come up and we tend to revert.

(24:32): So that’s what we are upon a lot there. But then those are kind of the workshop formats that we can do, whether that be two hours at a sales meeting with your team at your office, just a quick two hour session. And then we leave you guys with the materials. You move forward being able to implement some of these behaviors as you move forward. But I think one of the best ones is to working with the group, the group coaching container. Where we get a team together and work with the team specifically on, acknowledging the problem, becoming aware. It’s like, what do we specifically want to change? Developing that sense of awareness within the team within yourself, because it has to be a reflection of your inner world, as well as like what you want to manifest in the outer world. And then, stepping into the action.

(25:29): So then, what we can do is stay with you there as the action goes to transpire, as you want to bring that into your team. As well as we’re developing more of a train, the trainer type program as well, to where you have that group coach container. But then, we also train few advocates to be within the organization to make sure and be able to call out different behavior patterns that we may be reverting back to. And then, that’s when we feel that we have more sustained change, when we have someone within the organization that are advocating those right behaviors. And those are the couple of ways right now to work with organizations. And there’s more coming, more coming on the technology side as well.

Amy (26:16): Well, let me ask you John, because I don’t hear a lot of people say, I want my team to be more mindful or I want my team to be more balanced in their lives. Most companies want people to work more, to be home less. So when does a company know that they need someone like you? What are the triggers or the desires that cause managers, or leaders, or executives to bring you in? Because if somebody is listening right now and they’re like, this sounds interesting, but I’m not sure this is for me. How do they know when it’s time to call Humessence?

John (26:56): Hmm. Great question. Great question. One marker in particular is busier attrition, for sure. And it’s not. So there’s difference between attrition rates of everyone. When you look at an entire organization as a whole, and then you look at attrition of top performance. Because a lot of the times what we see is when those top performers are exiting the company, is when there is not because these are the people that are doing well for your organization. That these are the people that are driving your organization forward. And if they’re not able to maintain balance within their life, if they’re not able to feel a part of a shared vision. Then that’s when it’s like, I can drive any vision forward. Let me step to another company.

(28:05): It’s when you see that attrition of top performance starting to peak, then that’s a good sign. Another sign is just, is honestly, when you have a lot of stress and anxiety within the teams. You start getting reports, you know, reports of poor health, lots of stress, you know, and you feel that, and you see that sense of going in many different directions. That it’s almost like when it comes down to focus, like focus of the individual and engagement, when you see that engagement fall off and you’re seeing focus fall off for the individual and for the team. So it’s cultivating. And what I saw change in my life a lot was that focus, was the engagement. Like being able to realize what’s happening in your mind at the present moment, and being able to come back to what you’re working on, being able to come back to the vision rather than being sidetracked by one review, by being sidetracked by one customer.

(29:28): And I’m not saying that you don’t listen to feedback. You listen to feedback. You listen to feedback to turn the mission in the right direction, but you’re still on the mission. So when see a lot of teams and people stepping away, going down rabbit holes. And then, because a lot of times, when you’re talking about want people to work more, a lot of times people are actually working on non-value add activities. And that’s what we want to reduce, you’ll actually see productivity go up. When people are working the same amount, when you get them to not work on things that are not contributing to the mission, to your vision. So that’s what we focus on, is getting everyone focused in on what are we trying to create as an organization? What are we trying to create as a team? And now, what’s the environment we need to create to foster the behavior that puts that in the right direction?

Amy (30:33): I love it. And I think there are a lot of people listening who will see themselves in that scenario. We know we’re asking too much of people. We know there are lots of distractions. We know that we don’t have clarity or consensus around where we’re headed. So thank you for kind of putting it into the perspective of people who are kind of in the thick of the work. Because I think when we can translate, like, you know, okay, what’s driving you crazy that we can help you with? Is so important.

John (31:07): I mean, I remember, and it’s not like it was too long ago, but then, you know, working on things internally where you’re having meetings to prepare for meetings internally. You’re putting ducks together late into the night to do things internally, that where you’re just reviewing something that ends up actually not doing anything to move your offer forward to the customer. You know, it’s not customer focused, it’s internally focused. And a lot of that stuff can get in the way too. It’s like, are you just checking the check box many times, when you could just check it once and get it out the door. So you have to be mindful of the internal blocks as well, internal work creation. So when we’re talking about working on the wrong thing, it can be a lot of times self-inflicted.

Amy (32:06): Yes. And you know, so I’m so glad that you said exactly what you just said. In a situation I was working in, I had this boss who ended up telling me, I was difficult to work with. Which I thought was really funny. Because, I was frustrated. I was asked to put all this information together into a PowerPoint where it didn’t belong. It belonged in Excel. Let’s just go there first. Financial data. And she said, I want you to collect all this data and I want you to present this to the team. And I said, that’s great. And it was for internal review. And she yelled at me, on a Zoom call, privately, although she would’ve done it publicly, if she had seen it publicly. Because the little yellow ovals or the orange ovals, weren’t aligned on an internal facing PowerPoint presentation to talk about internal financials.

(33:03): And my response to that was, okay, but what about the fact that those circles or those ovals indicate where our internal financial data is wrong or being misrepresented? And that has real implications for everything that we’re forecasting. Can we talk about the numbers in the ovals and not the ovals themselves? And then she told me I was being difficult to work with. So I’m telling you this story because the question is, so managers don’t always realize, leaders don’t always realize when they’re asking ridiculous things of people and are they’re causing this stress. You have a B to C component in your business as well. If somebody finds themselves in that situation where they’re being yelled at about the alignment of the ovals on their PowerPoint slide and not about, you know, the actual underlying problems that they’ve identified in their organization. Their manager may not know to bring you in, but they may know that they need some help. What kinds of services do you provide to people like that?

John (34:05): So this is more around the career coaching aspect. So more of the, so from a B to C perspective and our one-on-one coaching programs. So there’s life coaching where we look at just overall life. And then career coaching, where it’s where you want to take a different step towards a different place within your career. That can be within the organization, that can be stepping towards a new promotion, that can be stepping towards working with a challenging boss. And that could also be with career transitions. If you’re within the company, moving locations. You could be moving to a different company and there’s just some things there that we offer with just a lot of the coaching principles around transition. And being aware of where you are in your life at that point. And I would say specifically to that situation, within the career coaching lens, you have to approach those situations with questions. Softly, with inquiry, right.

John (35:10): Because when you’re saying you’re the one giving the presentation internally. You’re the one who realizes what the issue is, not the ovals, it’s what the ovals represent. So then, from a coaching perspective, you’re asking the questions to the individual that, now how do you show your boss what’s important without spurring reaction? Without putting them in a place of defense. And a lot of times that’s part of the feedback workshop as well. Is that leaders can sometimes, especially under stress, because there’s being aware of the situation on both sides. Because maybe, or likely what you didn’t know is your boss was under pressure from the board who got some feedback about them not being able to understand upward communication through the way that they’re presenting slides. And that the information that’s coming to them is unclear. And then, he or she was projecting that onto you.

Amy (36:28): Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

John (36:29): Right. So a lot of times there’s so much more that we don’t know of the situation. So first it’s separating the emotion. Is that you probably don’t know what everything is going on in that person’s world. So once you separate the emotion, you start asking the right questions. How would you like to see the information presented? What do you feel is getting in the way of delivering the message behind the financials on this page? Do you feel that? You know, how do you feel that? Or, what is getting in the way here? And then you hear the response from your manager from that lens, rather than saying; because when you approach the situation as, well, I don’t think that’s relevant. So one, you’re starting an emotional response. You’re actually not getting any information from that statement. And you’re basically staying exactly where you are and heating up the fire.

Amy (37:30): Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That whole conversation did not go well. But I know there are so many people, that that’s, their life. Is, you know, you use the wrong red or you shouldn’t use red. And it’s about the work, but it’s not about the work. And, you know, for some of us, and I’ll tell you for me personally, my approach to that was if you’re paying me six figures to care about the alignment of ovals on the slide, I am in the wrong job. And I know right now, that this is not going to work. So a career coach might’ve helped me in that moment, or might’ve just confirmed that it was time for me to go.

John (38:13): Yeah, that could be it. And right. And, we could have helped you ask the right questions to understand where your manager was. Because when you create that understanding, and you open up a space for them to actually tell you what’s happening, and what is important, to feel open in that regard, then it changes the dynamic of the relationship. So that’s the first part that we work on is internally. The emotions, the frustration that comes up that gets in the way of actually asking questions to help the relationship or help your work come across better. Because ultimately, it’s the relationships. It’s this dance of communication. And the more that you practice and the better that you get with this dance, to be able to get through certain barriers, to have real conversations that actually go farther towards some substantial goal and understanding, the better off that your career trajectory will be. Because there is no career without working with people

Amy (39:27): That is true. And, a lot of people get into their careers thinking I’m going to be really technically strong, and do my job, and keep my head down and I’ll get ahead. And that does not work. You can be super technically sound and if you can’t navigate the people part of your job, you’re not going to go very far.

John (39:49): And that’s the dance. Yeah.

Amy (39:51): Yeah. I think it’s so important. So, if people are interested in learning more about how to work with you, or even start to get the benefits. Because I know that you do some of this stuff, like it’s just out there in the universe so people can kind of get a taste of what this looks like through guided meditations or online interactions. Can you talk a little bit about how people can find that, to sort of get started down this path with you?

John (40:17): Yes. So I do host guided meditations. So I have some that are recorded as well. So they’re hosted on the Insight Timer platform. It’s a free application. So it’s kind of like Calm and Headspace, but most of the content is free for users. So you download the app, and that one is under my name. You search John Marshall, you can follow me there. And I have some guided meditations that are posted there for any time use, as well as I host a live meditation every Monday morning at 7:00 a.m. Central called, The Present Professional. Really helping people like get ready for their week, start to visualize how they want to step into these relationships, Step into these communications. And go through a short 15-minute guided meditation, 7:00 a.m. Central each morning, on Insight Timer.

(41:11): And then, you can also reach out if you’d like to schedule a little bit more of the one-on-one work or a workshop for the organization. You can go to So everything there is under the company. On you can go through the life coaching, the life coaching area. So one-on-one coaching under that page. There’ll be for life coach, career coach, business coaching, as well as a short intensive. So we have a short intensive program that’s not as long as a full one-on-one coaching program, it’s more of your career discovery program. So that can be, if you’re in a bind, if you had just gotten laid off, if you are making a career transition. If you feel like there’s something completely missing and you need to step into another industry or something like that. That’s a little bit more of the individual intensive program that we have, where we basically take a look at all of the components of your ideal career.

(42:10): And then we form those right into this beautiful stack of priorities where we lay out the non-negotiables and exactly the priorities at which you want to look for jobs or look for another career in that direction. And then we have all the possibilities associated with those components. And it’s a beautiful process to step into a new possibility and that would be ideal for your life and career. So that’s the intensive process there. And then you have the workshops page where we can go a little bit deeper for a team organization where you can book a workshop there and we can come to you. And we can come to you or set up a neutral venue for that. So those are few the ways to work with me. Yeah. And then you can follow us on LinkedIn, as well as Instagram. So under the app @humessence tag there. And then, at things will be posted there, any of the new developments and new ways to work with us. You’ll be seeing a lot more of that coming out here over the next month or so.

Amy (43:15): John, I’m so grateful for the service that you provide to individuals and to companies. I think it’s so needed right now, when people are balancing so much, and they’re doing it in such a small container. They don’t have separate spaces for things right now, or they haven’t had, for the last year and a half or so. And I just think it’s wonderful that you’re giving people a new way to look at, and engage with, and exist in the spaces that they have. Thank you so much for your time today.

John (43:47): Thank you. Thank you. There’s one more thing on that note, actually. We’re actually developing a specific workshop and program right now for return to the office. Because that’s one area, like you mentioned over the past year and a half that is one thing we want to focus on is mindfully returning to the office. How do you do that for individuals? How the individuals ask the right questions to step into the office, and get their life wrapped around stepping back into the office? And then how to companies approach the same situations? How do leadership ask the right questions to make sure that their employees feel balanced, stepping back into the office and making that work on a smooth, integrated fashion? So that’s one program we’re working to put together. It should be more here in about a month or so. So I wanted to get that one out there because you spurred that. You spurred that thought.

Amy (44:42): Sure thing.

John (44:42): Thank you. Thank you Amy.

Amy (44:44): Oh, of course. Thank you, John so much. It was great to have you, and I can’t wait to talk to you again about the new developments, and as you fulfil this vision for Humessence. Thank you.

John (44:54): Awesome. Thank you.

Amy (45:42): I hope you enjoyed my interview with John. What I love about this interview is that, he just has this calming presence. And even in our conversations prior to this, in our pre-chatter, before we started recording, and in post, it just everything about him, just oozes calm. And I learned today that he does these guided meditations. I can’t wait to go listen to them. I have a feeling just having his voice in my ear, regardless of what he’s saying is going to make me feel more at peace with the world.

(46:14): So if you enjoyed hearing from John, if you enjoyed the episode, don’t forget to subscribe to Living Corporate, share us with your friends and colleagues. And you can really help us out by leaving us a six-star review. Wherever you get your podcasts. Maybe you’re thinking Amy, there are only five stars. Okay, well, give us all those, and then go the next step by leaving just a couple of sentences, in your own words, telling us what you like about the episode or what you liked about the series.

(46:42): Don’t forget to visit to learn more about our other podcasts, videos, web shows, and more. See It To Be It is brought to you in part by Lead At Any Level. A certified woman and LGBTQ-owned business dedicated to helping organizations turn their reclusive nerds into inclusive leaders. Lead At Any Level, leaders can be anywhere and should be everywhere. Learn more at

(47:12): That’s it for this episode of See It To Be It. This is Amy C. Waninger signing off, and I’ll see you next week.

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