Trumpism, White Supremacy, & D&I in 2021 (w/ Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts)

Zach sits down with Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts, the founder and CEO of The Alignment Quest Enterprise, LLC, to talk about the future of D&I. Check the links in the show notes to connect with her – there’s also an Amazon link to her work!

You can connect with her on LinkedIn and Twitter.

Click here to check out her personal website.

Learn more about her work on Amazon.

TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKER 3 0:00

Hey, what’s up, y’all? This is Zach. And look, I’m really excited about this. And I want to also shout out the team for being able to do this. You’re listening to this, because we’re doing something called 12 days a podcast. So look, this is content that we want to make sure y’all get before 2020 is over I. So we’re hitting y’all with some content. As we wrap up the year for the next 12 straight days. These are interviews that we had earlier this year. But we couldn’t get to releasing them because of coordination and just current events, we wanted to be a little bit more responsive to all the chaos that was happening around us in real time. So what we’re doing is we’re dropping this content for y’all now, because we don’t want y’all to hear it, like 20 weeks from now. We want y’all to hear it now. So what you’re about to hear is a super dope conversation that we have with an incredible guest. But before we get there, we don’t tap in with Tristan.



SPEAKER 3 1:10

What’s going on here is Tristan from lay field resume consulting, and I’ve teamed up with living corporate to bring you all a weekly career tip. Today we’re going to discuss how to properly ask questions. Have you ever asked a question and gotten a response? That doesn’t make sense, the issue may not lie with the other person but in the way you asked your question. Questions are the cornerstone of communication and yet many of us don’t frame or ask our questions appropriately. Questions allow you to learn get answers, get answers, mentor people and ultimately develop a reputation. But that’s all only if you utilize them correctly. So here’s a few tips on how to ask great questions. Number one, try to stick to one sentence, you may have to give some background which is okay, but try to limit the actual question to a single sentence. This helps in keeping your questions open ended. Number two, don’t offer answers unless those are truly the only options. In doing so you limit the other person which you never want to do because I can guarantee you’ve only thought about a few of the possible options. Number three, try not to sway the other person. While you may know the answer, your questions should be answered neutral, allowing the person to answer them naturally. Number four, keep your talking to a minimum, the entire essence of a great question is to find out what the other person knows. If you ask the question in the right manner, you’ll probably learn something. Number five, rinse and repeat for follow up questions. Keep them neutral, open ended as brief as possible. Asking better questions almost always results in better outcomes. Incorporate these tips when asking questions and start getting the answers that you’re seeking. This tip was brought to you by Tristan of lay field. Resume consulting, check us out on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at lay field. Resume or connect with me Tristan lay field on LinkedIn.



SPEAKER 3 2:59

Dr. Roberts, how’re you doing?



SPEAKER 3 3:01

I’m doing well today? How are you Zach?



SPEAKER 3 3:05

You know, it’s like a really loaded question. You know, I asked you all casual but it’s like it’s been a crazy year. You know, I think about so what we’re recording this after the election results, I have my daughter on my lap. So she’ll probably be participating as we as we continue forward. But it’s been it’s been wild. I’m thankful to be here, though. How’s your family doing? Everybody safe?



SPEAKER 3 3:29

My family is safe. So yes. What do you say? How are you doing? It’s always a relative, right? I’ve got it go through the relative relativity, I have to go through the well, considering the millions and millions of people who are suffering, you know directly. To prove it right now. I’m well, I’m helping my families healthy. My immediate family is healthy. I’m grateful for that. You know, considering the economic strife facing so many people right now, I have a job that allows me to do the work around which I’m passionate with people who have been supporting and encouraging me and doing this work. So I’m grateful for that. And then I think about the recent election results and the hope that we can have for ourselves and for our children, and especially for our little girls. And my daughter was Gosh, she was over on your daughter’s age when President Obama won the election. And I remember what it felt like to be in two weeks of Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta where I lived. And everybody was there Sharpton was there See it in there. As you know, Raphael Warnock, who is now one of the leading contenders in the Georgia run off for, for Senator, he’s the pastor of that congregation. I was a member of that church at the time. And so I’m sitting there, we’re basically having like a vigil, you know, he’s watching the news come in, and just holding our breath, and they started calling out the states that had gone blue. And we in disbelief, I’m elated, and also in disbelief. And I just remember looking at my daughter, at that time, who was about seven months old, and feeling like this was going to be a good period in history for her. For us. And so, you know, here we are now, eight years later. And I have had I explain, inexplicably, to my children, over the past four years, you know, just justifying behaviours that fly in the face of anything that we would teach them morally, you know, through our spiritual conviction, anything that I would teach in a classroom about leadership, about, like, how about wellness and thriving, and how to treat people, you know, for them to watch this, you know, magnified and rewarded, or you have been so hard. So, you know, I’m grateful that I can at least say to them, that there are statistically more people who see the world and want the same things in the world around true freedom, and hope.



SPEAKER 3 6:59

Well, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about that. Right. So like, you know, to that to that end around, like, you know, we’re living in this moment, as you think about the work that you do. And I’ve seen you on different panels, right, talking about diversity, equity inclusion, you know, talking about really like what this word means in this moment. As you look at this next, like, you know, six months or so, do you think that the work is going to going to radically shift? Do you think that there is a temptation for folks to kind of rest back on the laurels and say, okay, that period is over, we’re now back to, quote unquote, normal, like, what do you envision for like the future of diversity, equity inclusion work to look like, like, as an industry and then also like in the corporate space?



SPEAKER 3 7:44

Well, it’s already started to shift from where we were in the beginning of June to where we are right now, in this space. You’ve got CEOs, and senior executives coming out, making very bold statements, proactive statements about racial justice, and Black Lives Matter. And wanting to pursue and embody anti-racist practices within their organizations, and requiring other you know, mid-level managers in their organizations to pick up the mantle and carry forth this work. Like you all need to start talking about race, you need to start developing some plans that, you know, are more equitable injustice, you need to start addressing the unconscious biases that exist within you know, your parts of the company, because we as a company really need to do this work and focus on it. Well, honestly, there were a lot of middle managers who said, I’m not doing that. And so they didn’t write so that you already had within the first month, some fairly staunch resistance against an overt resistance against doing work within the space of racial equity. And as part of a long standing trend in DNI work, that we have been comfortable in our corporate spaces talking about and working on lots of dimensions of difference. That feel like they can benefit from and include the dominant group, but around racial justice, we’ve been largely silent. We didn’t take long for the silence to continue is only exacerbated since then. We, you know, companies have started to shift from Oh, we want you to come in and do a program or anti-racist program to say, Well, you know, we probably need to make it a little broader because we’re getting feedback from our leaders throughout the company. That What about Latinos? What about global? What about, you know, is this just a US thing? Is this just a black thing it can bite you. And so that was already happening. I’m also now hearing in the past couple of weeks, people who were just saying, as you stated, let’s just get back to normal, can we who I’m glad that was over, that was a terrible time, he was a really bad that was really bad, you know, that administration was really bad. That guy was just, you know, on some other stuff. So, let’s just get it’s great that now we can, we can get back to normal, but we’ve got to focus on healing here. And in some ways, that narrative is also subversive to the broader effort, because it’s allowing for many of the atrocities to go unchecked. You know, and for people to sort of move, move, move forward, because back to normal was not normal.



SPEAKER 3 11:10

exactly, to your point around like this DNI and, you know, people kind of changing, I wanted to make it Brian, can we talk a little bit so I’m going to shake the table early, cuz, you cuz, you know, you and I talked off mic. And so like, I record I respect, like, you know, like, where you rock from? And I’m going to try to I’m going to push you a little bit, and then we’ll see how far you go. And then, you know, I’ll back up, I’ll pay attention. I’ll follow your lead. But can we talk a little bit about how some of these white chief diversity officers normalize and propagate white supremacy in the corporate context?



SPEAKER 3 11:39

So white supremacy is always where should we start? Where should we start? Okay. So one, I think, you know, true work around inclusion, equity and justice, it centers the experiences, the voices and the suffering of the people on the margins. I have seen DNI initiatives co-opted with in organizations, when they center the perspectives opinions needs, insecurities, fragility, awkwardness, a fears and anxieties about exclusion or disempowerment or disenfranchisement of white men. Right that so that becomes like the dominant conversation that becomes the sparkly object, the thing that everybody is super interested in intrigued and, you know, really wants to focus on and talk about, it’s like, after the 2016 elections, you know, instead of saying, gosh, you know, we really have to focus our efforts on making sure that we’re doing everything we can to help people who are targeted by racism and have been, you know, targeted explicitly by racism through rhetoric and action, even during this campaign season, we got to make sure that they feel safe and supported within our organizations. No, that’s not where a lot of the diversity, energy and initiatives went, it immediately went to the people who are perpetuating the racist behaviours and ideals. And saying, We’ve got to, you know, understand more about the experiences of working class white people who feel that, you know, that they that they’ve been disenfranchised in some way. And if it becomes an either or, you know, putting the energy, the enthusiasm, the sparkly objects, the headlines, you know, not to mention the budgets and the resourcing in that direction. So that’s, that’s one. And then I would, you know, keep it keeping people oppressed economically, is the manifestation of white supremacy. It’s so a way that you keep not just white people, any white people in power, but you’re keeping the wealthiest white people in power. So we should pay attention to the concerns of people of all backgrounds who are disenfranchised, and who lack the quality, resources and infrastructure within their communities that are needed, you know, for them to be able to grow and thrive and flourish. I’m not dismissing that or discounting that. I’m just saying there’s some shape shifting involved. When the spotlight continues to drift away, or sometimes in a very harsh break away from the pain, the suffering the injustice, the oppression of black people toward the pain, suffering injustice or oppression of other people is very hard for the system to hold his gaze and his concern on the experiences and the needs of black people and be responsive and meeting those. So a lot Have DNI officers of, of all backgrounds struggle to find the courage or to have the depth of understanding about why we should continue to invest in initiatives that focus on and address the unique experiences that people have in organizations because of anti-blackness.



SPEAKER 3 15:31

You know what, cuz I see, so I’ve been waiting to like, get you on the show. Because I got some I got some tea for you. So, you know, I saw you’ve been arguing on some panels, right? So I’m not going to say, I’m not going to say who yet cuz I’m my messy boots aren’t that messy yet. But one of the people that you’ve been on a panel with, we had a conversation, and they were hitting me up asking me for advice. All right. Well, how do we how do we do this whole? You know, that’d be an eye thing, but not make like, to [Inaudible]. And I told them, I say, look, the reality is, we’re not going to make progress in the space. Without making those in the majority uncomfortable. I would even argue that if the people are comfortable, you probably aren’t making any real progress. They didn’t like that feedback. But it was the truth, those like, like, look like why this this, this constant demand to center. And I guess my, I guess the other thing is, like, just intellectually, it’s like, have we not been doing that for the past 400 plus years, we’ve been so you’re looking you’re looking at quote, unquote, strategic ways to do what we’ve been doing. Right? That’s not actually innovation. You’re trying to put a new hat on the same suit, but like, it’s the same, right?



SPEAKER 3 16:43

It’s like, it’s like a Scooby Doo episode. Chasing a false ghost. I mean, it’s not there’s no Boogeyman. This is the exact same thing. But there’s like this fear of the metaphorical Boogeyman that’s going to jump out, if we, you know, pursue this sponsorship program are this leadership development program, or this hiring HBCU hiring initiative, that’s actually going to result in empower the greater empowerment and advancement of black people within this organization are like, oh, some people are not going to like that. I said, of course, they’re not going to like, why we’re doing this work. That’s the pool. But that’s not the ending point. That’s the starting point. If one didn’t have to do a focus initiative in this in this domain, so let’s stop talking about that kind of resistance as a surprise, you know, as like the got you in a cheesy Scooby Doo episode. It is, it’s not you know, that either. That’s what has frustrated me over the summer as well. And then as we got to the fall, yeah, honestly, you know, full candour here. Once that executive order came out, I mean, you can see that I tweeted about it one day, when, when that administration put the executive order out, that said, you’re not allowed to say this. And so in any trainings, because in essence, we don’t like the story that that tells about America, A and B, it makes us feel bad about ourselves. So we don’t want you to come in and say or do anything that’s going to make us feel badly about ourselves. I said, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for finally putting it on paper. To explain this dynamic in intellectual terms and hypothetical terms and metaphorical terms. I mean, you know, I write poetry about this stuff, trying to get people to give different ways for people to wrap their minds around some of this when the data is not palatable to them. So yeah, I’m trying to find any, any way to like, get the message across. There’s some resistances. Here’s, here’s why, you know, when you’ve got folks who are saying, oh, no, no, that’s not the case. We just want to make sure we’re being inclusive, right, because that’s our goal, isn’t it? To be inclusive, you know, so you Co Op the very nature of inclusion by, you know, disregarding anti-blackness and the inequities and injustices that come along with it. That executive order. I’m just laying it out there plain and simple. When I say okay, from henceforth, now, all I will have to do is fight as indicated in the executive order. This is the mentality about this work. So, how do you want to go forward from there?



SPEAKER 3 19:52

Well, it’s something to be said about just how insidious I mean. I think the other point is that, you know, there is a Push to get back to the time when anti-blackness and oppression was not only socially acceptable, and something that you would aspire to maintain, but was also federally legislated. Right? And so like this idea… o



SPEAKER 3 20:20

h, yeah, we’re going to, we’re going to pack the courts and make sure that we can, you know, return to the time when this these forms of apartheid, anti-black apartheid in the United States are federally legislated through the judicial, you know, and enforced through the judicial branch.



SPEAKER 3 20:42

You know, I was on a panel some months ago, and we were talking about, like this idea. Like, we were talking, you know, this was while the executive order was in, in in place. And so, you know, there was quite like, you know, we’re not going to even allow certain people to ask certain questions, you know, there’s certain things woman raised and it’s scary, it’s scary. It’s scary when you think about like, wow, like, that’s all.



SPEAKER 3 21:06

They had pull back, the learning pathways and curriculum. On hold, there were sidebars and comment things in the comment column. All of a sudden, can we say this? Do we need to include this? In this session? Can we get this point across without using this phrase? It didn’t take four weeks. Full blown. They’re still tiptoeing.



SPEAKER 3 21:36

They are Oh, no, they’re still tiptoeing. But shout out to the people who are like, no, like, I’m not going to do that. Right. Like, like I think about Michelle. Michelle J. Cam. Yes. I think I think about Brittany J. Harris. And of course, Mary Francis winners, the winners group I think about Lilly. Lilly Zang, shout to Louise, I think there are folks out there like no like, because here’s the thing, like there’s something about. And so this is where I would like for us to have a part two, and maybe even do a panel on like, the psychology of hierarchy. And like, how we do seem to kind of like, just bend the knee to who whoever has the power, irrespective of like the character of those people who will their power, because it’s like, it’s like, why, and I was talking about was like, all we have to do is just not obey, we don’t have to obey this. Why is it that we’re all like, No, we have to do this, like, what is going to? If enough of us say, no, we’re not going to do X, then x won’t happen. But I’m curious about that. Like, I’m curious about, like, what will it take for folks to just not go with the flow on any damn thing? Because like, that Executive Order was wild to me, like, even when you, you know, I hope I hope that we don’t forget it.



SPEAKER 3 22:48

I will be talking about that from henceforth. Yeah, I mean, the assumptions that were behind it were flawed, just the lack of understanding the, the absurdity of including a critical race theory and unconscious bias training in the same category, where, you know, you’re talking about two entirely different concepts. And, and, you know, often, often the twain don’t meet, I won’t say, never the twain shall meet, but often, they don’t. So just to bucket it all together and say, all you folks who are doing this stuff, and, you know, not try to have any kind of intellectual sophistication about it was offensive to me, as someone who’s not at work, not to mention, you know, just the human rights violations that come along with censorship. So, you know, the point is, what well, let me say one of the things I did during that time was to just flood my LinkedIn with 21 days of free D. Okay, you don’t want to pay for it. Now. Guess what, there are so many of us, who have been working our hearts off working our behinds off for years and years, not just in 2020. But there’s so much information that’s really available, there is no excuse for ignorance. So that’s my first comment on this is, you know, how do we say no, I’m not doing this. I’m not colluding with this. You don’t have to wait for somebody, some government agency to pay for your training. You know, for you to be conscious of these kinds of issues and the role that raised and other dimensions of difference play in our society, educate yourself. There’s so much out there that is freely available that no one should ever be able to censor you’re aware of and your conviction about, you know what truth. We’ve got to fight the propaganda. It is so intense right now. I’m, I’m fortunate in the sense that when I have my family zoom meeting on Thanksgiving, because we will be meeting by zoom, and you’re not running with your family by zoom, I, please don’t post pictures on Facebook because I simply cannot take it. I can’t when…



SPEAKER 3 25:36

Stakes are too high, we got to chill, we got it, we got…



SPEAKER 3 25:38

Stakes are too high. I mean, I’ve watched you all at your birthday parties, your baby showers, your weddings, you know, all of these things. Just please, it’s, it’s, it’s enough. When I am having my Thanksgiving zoom, I’m having it with members of my family who are values aligned. Okay, that is not the case for many other families in our country right now. They’re going to sit down, hopefully at their family zone, and have some difficult conversations or avoid having some difficult conversations because they are on such different pages about what our country should be about what inclusion really looks like about what leadership really is. And they bought into a lot of the propaganda that that they’ve been presented with in a very calculated and explicit way. This is not a new tactic. You know, trying to keep people ignorant is not a new tactic. This is what they did to our people when we were enslaved. This is what they did to the indigenous people. As their lands were being stolen, they were also being sent away to being quote unquote, schools that stripped them of their identities and of their cultures. And the important relationships they have with family unity, we were not allowed to read. So ignorance is always a weapon. But knowledge is what we can do to combat the ignorance and can’t collude with ignorance. You know, what we were being asked to do is to collude with ignorance. And you can’t do that. And we can’t go back to that place. Because we think that it’s more peaceful, and it’s more calm, and it’s better if we just don’t talk about these things at all. That’s not the path forward for us.



SPEAKER 3 27:50

You know, I think to that in right, like, and I’ve shared this before, I’m living corporate life as a platform, but we have folks who listen in who are really trying to understand, you know, how to lead better what they should be thinking, you know, normally folks, mostly white folks, right? Trying to figure out how to show up better, how to lead better, I think, like, in this era, as we get out of the Trump presidency, and into a Biden, Harris presidency, you know, and we get into 2021 and beyond this, let’s talk about the next let’s just say here, what are the things that leaders can be doing to continue to show what better in light of all the things that we’ve learned and are learning about ourselves? And I say, us, I’m really kind of talking about white majority, not really by folks, black folks, but knowing a lot of the things that folks are just kind of coming into understanding of what are some things that you believe that leaders can continue to practice and focus on.



SPEAKER 3 28:46

So one thing that leaders can practice and focus on is, um, you know, so is avoiding false equivalencies? Okay, really respecting the differences in our differences. So, you can’t just jump from one program or set of initiatives or conversations or a moment of awakening around the black experience, you know, right over to LGBTQ. Because there are some things that are similar about the nature of stigmatization and bias, oppression and the harm that it does, but there are also some, some political particularities so leaders really need to start to examine the context, the historical context, the intersections of different identities and the power dynamics within their own organizations, rather than embracing one size fits all. Let’s welcome everybody. To the table, sort of inclusion initiatives, so the so that’s one thing. Another is to hear people want to say forgive and forget, I think we should be cognizant of our history and the Spirit of St. cofa. You know, you move forward by looking behind by learning from the past by acknowledging, and respecting what has happened and not finding ways to dismiss it, because it reveals some uncomfortable truths about you, about your family, your community, um, you know, your neighbours, you got to hold all of that you got to look at the fact that 73 million people, recorded votes for, you know, four more years of the same, or even more intense suppression, and human rights violations and abuses, in the name of what you know, in a truly in the name of white supremacy, there’s very little that can explain why millions and millions of people would willingly submit themselves over to an authoritarian system in the midst of a global pandemic, that is, you know, minimizing the loss of American life on an on a daily basis. There’s no other way to explain that without calling out and acknowledging the white supremacy that was baked into the rhetoric and the support, or the current administration, the outgoing administration. So we need to act within recognition that if, let’s say 50% of the voting part of the population voted because we know 100% didn’t vote, not even that even if 50% voted, then that would be a good 25%, one out of four people who were willingly signing up for more of that. So if you’re a leader, and that is not your version of leadership, you’re going to have to be extremely, you know, explicit and vigilant about what you do value and what you are hoping to promote. And I think we also see here, as we saw in 2016, and this is in the spirit of leaving corporate, black women are going to do the work. Black women have been doing the work, to salvage democracy, to build character, to try to find ways even under the most horrific of circumstances, to push their fellow brothers and sisters along the path of doing the right thing that truly allows us to live free and to be free. In Michelle Obama’s terms, you know, not in certain moments to not go there, right. So they go low, we go high. Yep. You’ve had a lot of examples of that from black women in positions of leadership constantly. You know, going high, when other people are going low, but not hiding out, being very smart and calculating and strategic about how to mobilize power and resources for the common good. So you can’t talk about this election. Even if you’re thrilled about it, and you feel that you’re on the side of the set, really 7 million supportive Biden Harris at the top of the ticket. You can’t celebrate any of that without celebrating. Kamala Harris. First of all, obviously, on the ticket a woman of color, we also have to talk about Stacey Abrams and her leadership. About Keisha Lance bottoms, we have to talk about Lori Lightfoot. In the city of Chicago in this pandemic, we have to talk about Muriel Bowser, repainting Pennsylvania Avenue as Black Lives Matter Plaza, like we have to talk about all of the ways that black women have been leading in these critical moments when our very democracy is at stake. Corporate leaders need to know that and in this next season going forward in a Biden Harris presidency. It’s time that we drop the tired mantra that we can’t find any Well, I don’t know. They can handle the job. Are they qualified enough? You know, one thing that should not be questioned at this point is whether or not black women can lead.



SPEAKER 3 35:10

These are facts. No. I’m just trying to give you space to rock, you know you.



SPEAKER 3 35:20

That one would have to continue to argue for that, you know, when you just see that the level of competence and capability. I mean, I’m clearly a Barack Obama, supporter and voter and advocate, but the brilliance of Michelle Obama was never lost on me that from day one, I looked at Barack Obama, and then I said, okay, but yeah, but let me see his partner cuz that’s going to tell me the difference between Barack Obama and Clarence Thomas.



SPEAKER 3 35:52

Listen.



SPEAKER 3 35:52

Let’s talk about the partners.



SPEAKER 3 35:55

No, know, you’re 100%. Right. I think the other thing is, is that what you’re speaking to about, like we can’t find anymore, you know, they handle a lot. A lot of that just goes back to the reality of racial gas lighting. Yeah. Right? It’s like, like, we can look at the Meta narrative of black performance in this nation. And we can say that black people are actually over performers. Oh, my gosh, we over perform we’ve historically over performed. Yeah, while being criminally literally criminally, under resourced and abused.



SPEAKER 3 36:25

That’s right. That’s right, no sleep, no food, and picking bales of cotton, and building monuments, and tracks to clearing out forests. For who I mean, this is not just like, Good, let’s go to Williamsburg and have a little tea on the back porch kind of situation. This is I mean, engineering, of Agra, agriculture, you know, crop rotation and so forth, you over performing not just in the, in the physical aspects, but in the, in the ingenuity that was required to be able to build the infrastructure of this nation.



SPEAKER 3 37:09

100% and I think, you know, so to your point around, like, acknowledging that and being explicit, by like, leaders acknowledging that, and being explicit, is 100%. Right. But that takes a certain level of emotional intellectual honesty that, frankly, I don’t know, if a lot of leaders have still in this era. But I asked you the question, and I appreciate it. And you’re right. You know, as you think about…



SPEAKER 3 37:32

Now you don’t asked me what was likely to happen, you asked me what could happen all fairness if you want to walk around with your chest out, because Whoo, we did it, we did it. If you wanted to go out with your girlfriends, do the happy dance, you know, you want to write your supportive letter from this new you know, in a, in a light that says, hey, I was on the right side of history, while you do all of those things, which I encourage everybody to do. Because this was this was a battle is a battle for freedom. It was a battle for democracy for everybody, not just for black people. But for everybody. So yeah, go out and acknowledge what happened, because it was a hard fought battle. But when you do it, make sure that you give the war heroes their credit, instead of treating them like they are the criminals. That’s the irony of it. Want to Taylor’s in the same week that all of this is happening, police officer who was responsible for unit [Inaudible] Briana Taylor’s significant other you cannot you cannot be the victim here. You’re not you’re not



SPEAKER 3 39:03

At all. No, I think to your point is like, what I’m hoping is I recognize that this will this is an intellectual exercise for some for many rights. It’s not going to be automatic, but I’m hoping that folks will realize like, look at each of your organizations, there is a Stacey Abrams, there are women out there who are carrying the majority of the labour, not just for their own personal benefit, but for the benefit of your entire organization. Similar to how Stacey Abrams she cared all this for the benefit of the entire nation. But I get that that type of that that type of you know, connecting the dots may take some support. But my hope is, is that my hope is that white folks as listeners are going to be like long story long. It’s like we’ve been telling y’all we’ve been telling y’all this from the jump. He’s like, just listen to us. And so I know I asked you a question. Now it’s turning into a rant on the back end, but it’s the truth now.



SPEAKER 3 39:58

A lot of brilliance That is unrecognized, untapped, unutilized um, you know, some of the criticisms that people made about Stacey Abrams had nothing to do with her political savvy, but about Eurocentric standards of beauty. Which is also nonsense. Absolutely. And so when we talk about all these dimensions of anti-blackness, we’re talking about colorism. We’re talking about body type, we’re talking about how people, you know, see different images of white female beauty hair. So I love that we’re talking about Stacey Abrams and Kamala Harris on that.



SPEAKER 3 40:54

I do follow you on that because now there’s something to be said about that about like, the reality is that we still we’ve always historically, we’ve shamed black women, for their bodies, and yet sought to actually colonize them at the same time and you know, lift the very thing that we shame black female bodies for we then praise white women for having those body types that they go on, like, oftentimes will go to the doctor tomorrow, manufacture those…



SPEAKER 3 41:24

Exactly. Well, you know, let’s celebrate, we can celebrate the onset, we can celebrate Kamala Harris, we can celebrate Serena Williams, we can celebrate Stacey Abrams, they are all brilliant leaders, all in their own right, and all identify as black women, and we’re blessed for it.



SPEAKER 3 41:46

This has been a dope conversation with Dr. Roberts. First of all, I felt like we got to have you back for another conversation.



SPEAKER 3 41:51

There’s so much for us to break down.



SPEAKER 3 41:54

There’s a lot for us to break down. And like I really want to, I really want to make sure that people know where to find you. You know if there’s anything that you’re working on, but like I’m going to give you space to like plug, whatever you got going.



SPEAKER 3 42:06

Let’s see. So I’m a mile a minute these days Zach, there’s so much. So probably the best way to keep up with me and what I’m doing. I’m LinkedIn is very active community for me. So you can follow me on LinkedIn. Also have a website, go to Laura Morgan Roberts.com and find my contact information and reach out from there. And then I have a book the alignment quest toolkit that I self-published. So that’s available on Amazon. I have a book race work and leadership published by Harvard Business Review press, quite relevant to the conversations we’ve been having today. Learning about him from the black experience.



SPEAKER 3 42:56

This has been dope, Dr. Rob’s going to have to have you back. We’ll talk to you soon. Okay.



SPEAKER 3 43:01

All right. Thanks,



SPEAKER 3 43:02

Peace. All right. Listen, I really appreciate y’all being here. Make sure y’all check out the notes in the show notes. Make sure if you have a question that you want to send us you have a listener led or anything like that. Just email us at living corporate podcast@gmail.com. Until next time, this has been Zach. Oh, yeah, make sure you give us five stars on Apple podcasts. All right. Catch y’all soon. Peace.



SPEAKER 3 43:37

Living corporate is a podcast on living corporate LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins in our theme music was produced by Ken Burns. Additional music production by Anton Franklin from musical elevation. Post production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion. Email us at living corporate podcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and living dash corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

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